Sunday, June 1,2014

Ok, just one more article response of Crackpipe’s, then the list of his lies, then the “Evidence of Jesus is meaningless 2 ” article that Crackpipe helped me unknowingly write with all his wonderful feedback.

So here we go. Crackpipe as usual will start off quoting stuff from what I’ve written and I will quote that and then follow it with his stupidity, then my response under the line.

http://justonecan.blogspot.ca/2014/06/brainwashing.html?m=1

Crackpipe says….

“Brainwashing!
BB(s)J is allowing me to chose which topic I wish.

Now, I know that I won’t pick the right one, so I’ll just pick the more interesting one (to me) to deal with: BRAINWASHING!

Let us begin!”
———————–

WTF?! Did I not clearly say to pick one of my brainwashing articles and that I really don’t care?

– Then Crackpipe wonders why Atheists ignore him and block him.

– He really is a skidmark and really comes across as such.

– Also he’s so unfunny, he really is and his humor alone is so painful that people just block him, or ignore him just from that alone.

– Why does Crackpipe say that he’s picking one of my brainwashing articles because they’re more interesting?

> I clearly told him to pick one of my brainwashing articles, so WTF?!

> He must be trying to be funny, or be irritating I guess.

> I also like how he never linked the articles I wrote where these come from.

> Great job. Loser.

– Anyways, this is the article of mine that he is attacking:

https://thebuybulljournal.wordpress.com/2014/04/29/its-no-conspiracy-theory-religion-is-brainwashing-its-fact/
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“I often tell religious believers they are brainwashed and it unfortunately doesn’t give the results that it is supposed to. Which is really part deflection on the religious person’s part since a rational person would respond with defending the claims and proving the accuser wrong, which never happens.”

BB(s)J believes that the ONLY reason someone is religious is because they are brainwashed. He then believes that a “rational” person would PROVE they aren’t brainwashed. Well, a bit tough to do when someone is secure in their BELIEF that a religious person MUST BE brainwashed, thus any argument to the contrary can’t be valid.
—————-

It really isn’t that hard to do if you actually try and it’s just a very simple job of asking the right questions.

– Part of the exercise of getting someone into proving to themselves they aren’t brainwashed, is actually getting them to think about it in the first place, then seeing how they were brainwashed and realizing that they are.

– It’s a necessary first step.

– Of course if the person is not honest with me, or the person who is pressing them with the questions, or worse, not honest with themselves, then of course it’s gonna be an issue.

– Such as this entire blog response that Crackpipe did ABOUT brainwashing.

> Crackpipe doesn’t reveal a thing.

> Nothing, zip, zero.

> Completely knows what I want to hear but he completely deflects everything.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“Can I show him I’m not brainwashed?

Not on a blog, no. But as we will see, he has the argument backward…

However, I CAN show that his argument is illogical. Which would mean, of course, his argument is invalid. And show that he actually is the one who needs to “prove” the claim, not the opposite!”
————–

More sleazy, slippery, misleading, time-wasting apologetic dishonesty.

– More of Crackpipe’s “your argument is illogical, so your argument is invalid” nonsense.

– This is of course nothing but time wasting deflection because Crackpipe knows exactly how and why it exposes him as brainwashed.

> If he didn’t know that he was avoiding and deflecting, then why did he deflect and avoid EVERYTHING that was relevant?
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“Thus, I don’t need to prove I’m not brainwashed, he would have to make a better, specific, argument.

Of course he won’t believe it, or accept it because…well, he believes all Christians are brainwashed not matter what!”
————–

So more deflection then. Not surprising though because it is a typical cowardly apologetics maneuver.

– Proving my point that if apologists didn’t lie, deflect and time-waste then they couldn’t do apologetics at all.

– Of course all christians are brainwashed and every other religion too.

– If Crackpipe is saying he doesn’t have to prove anything, then why does he even bother pretending that he is replying when he just ADMITTED that he isn’t even going to answer anything?

> In a sense Crackpipe just admitted he is just here to waste my time and nothing else.

– The only way someone could believe such nonsensical insanity as religion is by being brainwashed to believe it.

> Being mentally conditioned to willfully accept the unacceptable.

> How else can Crackpipe explain people having the same amount of faith he has, or more, but with different religions which sound completely insane to Crackpipe?
.
.
Crackpip continues….

“The benefit of being illogical: security!

If he chooses to believe an illogical argument, that just reflects poorly upon him…”
——————-

But since Crackpipe just avoids and deflects the whole time and never even shows HOW the argument is illogical by revealing nothing about how he became a christian, then it is just exactly as I said.

– Crackpipe knows that if he reveals the slightest information about how he became religious then he will reveal his brainwashing and how he is brainwashed.

– He just basically said “because his argument is illogical, it’s invalid, so I don’t have to co-operate and don’t have to answer anything”.

> For which of course he explained nothing to us at all.

– I really hope that someone observes what he has just said and seen that he just completely avoided and blew off answering anything.

> Pointing out that these are the words of a typical cowardly apologist.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“The desired result is that the religious believer will self reflect and consider the facts and evidence. Afterall, if I was brainwashed I would want to know if I was brainwashed (wouldn’t you?).”

BB(s)J believes it IMPOSSIBLE for a person to choose and believe a religion on their own.”
—————–

Well since Crackpipe never revealed how he became religious then he really hasn’t proved me wrong has he?

– Crackpipe has deflected a lot though and completely avoided everything that I wanted him to say and reveal.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“Since this post is to show this isn’t a conspiracy I’m sure he will have a plethora of evidence to show this.

Brainwashing however is reality and is of course the only reason anyone is religious in the first place. If people weren’t brainwashed, then they wouldn’t be religious.

But is this a logical argument?

No.
——————

Well since AGAIN Crackpipe never reveals anything, then there is no exposing the truth is there?

– If someone does nothing but deflect and don’t answer then both the treatment and argument are not going to work.

– This is Crackpipe’s fault though for being the slippery dishonest, misleading weasal that he is.

– AGAIN for the treatment and revelation to work the religious victim has to confront the truth.

> This is a lot like substance abuse.

> In order to deal with the problem the person has to admit that they have a problem, or even acknowledge they have a problem.

> Like a substance abuser the religious victim has to realize WHEN things started becoming a problem and HOW.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“He claims the ONLY reason people come to a religion, a faith, is because they are brainwashed because if they weren’t brainwashed, they wouldn’t be religious.”
—————–

So insead of co-operating and proving me wrong Crackpipe continues to deflect and avoid.

– Boy he really is showing me how christianity isn’t brainwashing. NOT

– What a loser Crackpipe is.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“This is circular reasoning.

Premise 1) all religious people are brainwashed.

Premise 2) if they weren’t brainwashed they wouldn’t be religious.

Conclusion: all religious people are brainwashed.
————-

Yet if Crackpipe ACTUALLY wanted to defend himself from what I’m saying, he could say exactly HOW someone could become religious other than brainwashing.

– As I have constantly reminded Crackpipe and everyone who has the pleasure of reading what I have to say….

There are 2 types of brainwashing:

> Child indoctrination (where the child is raised and mentally conditioned and programmed to deny the truth and accept the unacceptable).

> Brainwashing when older (where someone is caught in a state of being emotionally vulnerable and that religion exploits the person).
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“We are right back to where we started (which is why it’s called circular reasoning).

As we know, circular reasoning is a logical FALLACY and as such makes his argument invalid.

Well that was simple!

Oh, but that won’t sell with BB(s)J.”
—————

Well no of course not.

– Of course Crackpipe knew that and knew that he was just time-wasting.

– He knows exactly what I want him to tell me, but avoids doing so and just continues to timewaste.

– Crackpipe might want to self refect on his own circular reasoning:

> He’s not brainwashed because Crackpipe refuses to show how he isn’t brainwashed, so he’s not brainwashed.

> If Crackpipe says he’s not brainwashed, then he’s not brainwashed, because Crackpipe says so.

> As long as Crackpipe doesn’t answer a thing and never exposes how he became brainwashed, then we can never show how he’s brainwashed.

> Crackpipe says that it isn’t true that the only way someone can become religious is by brainwashing and keeps insisting that, but then never says how else someone can become religious.

> My argument isn’t valid because Crackpipe says it isn’t valid, so it’s not valid.

> Crackpipe doesn’t have to prove he isn’t brainwashed because that would prove him brainwashed, so he doesn’t have to prove it.

– I think Crackpipe should realize that he isn’t fooling anyone and that he is only fooling himself.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“Okay. So, Let’s see what he does to back up this illogical claim.

But first, let’s define brainwashing:
—————

No Crackpipe, please continue showing my illogical claim.

> Maybe Crackpipe has Attention Deficit Disorder.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“Brainwashing is a bipassing of being able to grasp and contemplate reality. Brainwashing is what makes thoughts that aren’t real become disguised as thoughts that are.

BB(s)J doesn’t really say where he gets this definition from. Seems he just defined himself to fit his argument.

It’s vague. And worded funny.”
——————

LOL Did I seriously just read what I thought I just read?

– Crackpipe is calling ME vague? BWAHAHAHA! Too funny!

> This from a guy who just says “his arguments are illogical so their invalid, so I’m not answering them”.

> This from a guy who tells me that “christianity is true because a guy said he had Jesus as his imaginary friend and knew his imaginary friend’s brothers”. Seriously?! WTF?!

> This is coming from a guy who says “that just because I don’t think that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree, is a sane thing to think”.

> Doesn’t Crackpipe find his own religion a little VAGUE?

– Also, Crackpipe says I’m describing myself.

> Crackpipe needs to tell me then what it is that I’m brainwashed to and what evidence he has to back up whatever he’s saying.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“Definitions are important, and we want to nail this down.

So let’s use BB(s)J’s favorite website: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control

Okay, in short brainwashing is a theory, and there are a few theories about it.”
————-

So Crackpipe is going to play the misleading game is he? Well that is typical apologetic style.

> Evolution and gravity are theories also for things we have evidence for, but I don’t see Crackpipe jumping out of bulidings and I don’t see Crackpipe wondering why he has to get a flu shot every year.

– What Crackpipe of course is wasting his time not talking about is the fact that few people really are brainwashed as adults, or when older, but most religious peiopeople are CHILD INDOCTRINATED.

– Crackpipe is more than likely child indoctrinated also, which is the part about himself that he has not revealed.

> I hope everyone notices that Crackpipe is doing that on purpose, by not disclosing how he became religious.

– The majority of Crackpipe’s response is just talking about brainwashing when older, regarding an article I wrote to demonstrate some more than obvious brainwashing that really stands out.

– It really is an overall waste of words that Crackpipe makes since he doesn’t really remind everyone that the overwhelming majority of brainwashed people are child indoctrinated.

– As I repeatedly say in my articles about being brainwashed when older, “they are exploited while being caught in a state of being emotionally vulnerable”.

> Sometimes I say “exploited while being caught in a state of emotional vulnerablity”. 😉

– I never said it was the majority reason people are religious, just that it happens and religious people willingly attempt to spread their disease to others

> Crackpipe and other apologetic filth are evidence of religion infecting other people and attempting to brainwash them.

> People like Crackpipe will try to convince people they are broken and in need of fixing.

> People like Crackpipe will try to convince people they have an imaginary disease and try to sell them their imaginary cure.

> In otherwords people like Crackpipe are evidence of people who brainwash other people.

– People like Jim Wallace were brainwashed when older and now they spend their time brainwashing other people.

> Wallace is a perfect example of someone who was brainwashed by a religion and now spends his time brainwashing other people.

> Wallace is the evidence of brainwashing working and doing it’s job if you’re familiar with his story.

> Amazing and also frightening how just sitting in a church as an Atheist can mentally condition you to become religious and believe complete nonsense.

> Nonsense that isn’t true and has no evidence I might add.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“However: “Neither the American Psychological Association nor theAmerican Sociological Associationhave found any scientific merit in such theories.[2]”

http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Brainwashing.html
————

Lies again. If you look at the 2 links of the 2 associations Crackpipe gives there is no word in them about brainwashing.

Also this link that Crackpipe gives us CLAIMS to be from wikipedia but if you look at them you see that they are quite different.

http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Brainwashing.html

Compare:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing

They’re not even close. Complete dishonesty and completely misleading on Crackpipe’s part and the website he provided that was untrue.

This ACTUAL wikipedia article link is overwhelming with things that prove my point!

– Of course he never mentions those.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“Okay, but what’s the definition?

Wikipedia offers us this: “Mind control (also known as brainwashing,coercive persuasion, thought control, orthought reform) is a theoretical indoctrination process which results in “an impairment of autonomy, an inability to think independently, and a disruption of beliefs and affiliations. In this context, brainwashing refers to the involuntary reeducation of basic beliefs and values”[1] The term has been applied to any tactic, psychological or otherwise, which can be seen as subverting an individual’s sense of control over their ownthinking, behavior, emotions or decision making.”

I like this one better than BB(s)J’s vague definition. As I echos the “theoretical” aspect of brainwashing.
—————-

My definition was not only short and sweet but told the truth.

– Crackpipe really has shown the definition of brainwashing though and seen that what I say isn’t just me saying it.

– However Crackpipe’s misleading tactic of implying “theoretical” as “just a wild crazy guess” is quite dishonest, desperate and pathetic.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“But does it truly exist?

Brainwashing has been around for as long as religion has been around and ever since people have been able to indoctrinate children and deceive people.

As an expert in the field, BB(s)J says yes! And backs it up with scientific evidence.

Whoops, he actually doesn’t…not one link to a scientific paper/blog/YouTube video to follow up.

Because as we know, there really isn’t any: just anecdotal.”
————

Well it’s a good thing Crackpipe brought that up and conveniently showed me the wikipedia article that talks about this.

Let’s use some of the quotes it has in it and then we’ll look for stuff….

– Oh here’s a good one:

” Philip Zimbardo discusses mind control as “the process by which individual or collective freedom of choice and action is compromised by agents or agencies that modify or distort perception, motivation, affect, cognition and/or behavioral outcomes”,[29] and he suggests that any human being is susceptible to such manipulation.[30] ”

> Let’s checkout Dr. Zimbardo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Zimbardo

> Let’s see what [29] says about what Dr. Zimbardo says:

“Zimbardo, Philip G. (November 2002). “Mind Control: Psychological Reality or Mindless Rhetoric?”. Monitor on Psychology. Retrieved 2008-12-30. “Mind control is the process by which individual or collective freedom of choice and action is compromised by agents or agencies that modify or distort perception, motivation, affect, cognition and/or behavioral outcomes. It is neither magical nor mystical, but a process that involves a set of basic social psychological principles. Conformity, compliance, persuasion, dissonance, reactance, guilt and fear arousal, modeling and identification are some of the staple social influence ingredients well studied in psychological experiments and field studies. In some combinations, they create a powerful crucible of extreme mental and behavioral manipulation when synthesized with several other real-world factors, such as charismatic, authoritarian leaders, dominant ideologies, social isolation, physical debilitation, induced phobias, and extreme threats or promised rewards that are typically deceptively orchestrated, over an extended time period in settings where they are applied intensively. A body of social science evidence shows that when systematically practiced by state-sanctioned police, military or destructive cults, mind control can induce false confessions, create converts who willingly torture or kill ‘invented enemies,’ and engage indoctrinated members to work tirelessly, give up their money—and even their lives—for ‘the cause.”

For the full article:

http://www.apa.org/monitor/nov02/pc.aspx

> Well that was a good one, so let’s bring up more of Dr. Zimbardo’s work on this.

Here’s a great article on brainwashing that he did that supports everything that I say:

http://www.csj.org/studyindex/studycult/study_zimbar.htm

> If Crackpipe tries to say that this only applies to “cults” and not religions, let’s remind Crackpipe that religions ARE cults.

> The difference between a religion and a cult is the size of it’s members and that a “cult” usually has a leader that is still alive.

> Christianity started off as a cult but whether or not Jesus did, or didn’t exist, Paul became the cult leader to his imaginary friend in outer space.

– Here’s a good one also:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cults_in_Our_Midst_(book)
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“So what do actual experts say?

Does brainwashing exist?

“Not in the way that the mainstream media portray it, says Roger Finke, professor of sociology and religious studies at Penn State. “The popular idea is that brainwashing techniques can completely alter a person’s opinions, while he or she is powerless to stop the conversion,” he says. “But such techniques have never actually been found to exist.””

Note Finke doesn’t say brainwashing is just getting someone to believe something that isn’t true, but altering their opinions, and yes beliefs. Nor is the person powerless to stop the conversion (important note).
————

Unbelievable. Checkout Finke’s field of work and what he does. Professor of sociology and religious studies.

Seriously?! So biased religious person with an agenda. Great.

– As a brainwashed slave of a lie what else do you think he’s going to say?

– HAHA Look at Roger Finke’s wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Finke

> Gee what a surprise, that a scientific research project was done regarding defending religion somehow and it was financed by the Templeton foundation.

> I don’t suppose Crackpipe is familiar with the Templeton foundation, but I think most apologists are, so actually I will say “yes he is”.

> Basically, Templeton is a religious organization that pretends to be a science organization and they fund people who do science projects which are biased, dishonest and make religion look good and Atheism look bad.

> Here’s some stuff I had on file that I found and set aside from someone who tried throwing Templeton related “evidence” in my face last year:

http://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.ca/2011/11/templeton-foundation.html?m=1

http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2009/06/21/fighting-back-against-templeton/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1374348/Templeton-Prize-2011-Athiest-astronomer-Martin-Rees-accepts-1m-religious-prize.html

And in the words of Sean Carroll HIMSELF about the Templeton foundation:

http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2013/05/08/on-templeton/

– So by reading these 4 articles above we can see how non-credible Mr. Finke is with his completely biased and untrustworthy “scientific research”.

– If anyone should read those four articles directly above and think that the research Crackpipe is presenting from Dr. Finke is trustworthy, then they’ve got as many rocks in their head as Crackpipe does and probably smoking rocks like him too.

> The Templeton foundation are the ones who funded this laughable evidence on “children NOT being born Atheists:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/3512686/Children-are-born-believers-in-God-academic-claims.html

> Now let’s hear the truth regarding this:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/nov/28/religion-children-innateness-barrett

> So in otherwords this “research” Crackpipe is presenting is not only not trustworthy whatsoever, but another example of how religious people have gone to new limits to mislead and brainwash people.

> Religion has evolved it’s apologetics to a level now that it can mislead and deceive people by disguising it as science itself.

> Terrifying. It really is.

– What Crackpipe doesn’t seem to grasp for some unknown reason is that altering someone’s opinion and beliefs IS BRAINWASHING.

> If their opinion involves believing something to be true, but isn’t true, but they BELIEVE it is true, then that is exactly what I said as the definition.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“To continue:
“However, Finke notes that the popular portrayal of brainwashing became widespread in the United States during the 1970s, a time in which a number of cults and religious movements, like theUnification Church, were on the rise.”

So what of these cults? They used brainwashing right? That’s the ONLY way they got members right?

“When these movements were studied systematically by social scientists, however, it was found that they had no powers of brainwashing, says Finke.”

Oh, huh…

Then how did they get members?”
————–

Again, this is coming from the unreliable voice of a religious organization famous for dishonestly misleading people into thinking they are a science organization.

– Finke is a religious professor, who is a christian, with an obvious agenda to mislead with that agenda.

> I say this because this is what all apologists do (mislead with an agenda to get people to share their delusion any way they can).

> If apologists didn’t lie and mislead then they couldn’t do apologetics at all.

> Like William Lame Craig disguises himself as both a scientist and a historian, he is neither, but merely an apologist and nothing else.

> Finke is no different and is merely an apologist using his science credentials to help mislead and brainwash people into thinking that they CAN’T be brainwashed.

> Shows people how tricky desperate, creative and sneaky apologetics has gotten.

– Again, religions, or cults get new members (outside of child indoctrination) by exploiting someone’s state of emotional vulnerability.

> As Dr. Zimbardo says:

“What makes any of us especially vulnerable to cult appeals? Someone is in a transitional phase in life: moved to a new city or country, lost a job, dropped out of school, parents divorced, romantic relationship broken, gave up traditional religion as personally irrelevant. Add to the recipe, all those who find their work tedious and trivial, education abstractly meaningless, social life absent or inconsistent, family remote or dysfunctional, friends too busy to find time for you and trust in government eroded.”

– I think I will trust Dr. Zimbardo since he was an unbiased professional who has accomplished multiple psychological studies with no bias and no religious, or anti-religious agenda.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“Propaganda and other methods of persuasion were used to make the movement look as attractive as possible to prospective members, but, in the end, the vast majority of people that explored these movements never joined them. “It was really only a tiny percentage that joined,” notes Finke.”

http://news.psu.edu/story/141191/2009/11/03/research/probing-question-does-brainwashing-exist

Now this is significant. This would argue that “brainwashing” if effective at all, is to a small percentage of people.
————-

Well in actuality I can’t argue with Crackpipe there, because this is true that the number of people who get brainwashed when older is kinda small.

But this doesn’t really conflict with anything I say, so Crackpipe has failed so far to make any significant defense.

– The overwhelming majority of people who are religious were child indoctrinated.

– Though as I always have said that SOME people ARE brainwashed when older by having an emotional vulnerability exploited.

> The vulnerability varies from person to person, but the predators of religion know that the perfect victims are the ones who have these emotional vulnerabilities and they always make sure to exploit them.

> Very similar to wolves that hunt the weakest and the sickest of the herd.

– I never claimed there are mass numbers of people getting brainwashed when older though.

> Maybe I just think that though because I’m optimistic and subconciously I just don’t want to think that so many people could be so stupid.

> In a way I could be in denial and am myself brainwashed to not think so many people are so stupid and dumb enough to get brainwashed, but you never know.

> This is most likely a self defense for my mind because I really can’t mentally deal with the truth about how large the number of stupid people who are brainwashed to religion really is because of how much it would anger me and disgust me.

> I’m hopeful it’s true and the numbers are small.

> Truthfully and honestly if I discovered that the numbers were larger than I think about how many adults get
brainwashed to religion, I really would have a hard time accepting the stupidity of my own species, but because of how let down and disappointed I would be.

> So in a way I am no different than religious people in accepting some truth despite being confronted with facts.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“However, as Finke says those who joined the cults/groups studied, did so willingly (as we will see).

Which isn’t brainwashing.

Sure persuasive methods were used to make the decision more attractive, but if brainwashing works so great, such methods are unneeded.”
————

Persuasive methods that cause someone to believe a lie. Crackpipe somehow doesn’t see how that’s brainwashing?

I think Crackpipe is kinda missing the point here, so let’s break this down for him:

– If they joined the cult willingly but already believed the whole bible/Jesus story already, then all they were doing was joining a cult that hijacked christianity.

– Many cults are sects of christianity such as Jonestown and The Branch Davidian.

> Many cults even have a leader claiming to be Jesus.

> So if they were child indoctrinated to the lie of Jesus and christianity already, then they were already brainwashed and just needed a push to go somewhere, like a cult.

– People in cults will bring up their families into cults and those kids will have more kids in the cult.

– As for the small number of people who get brainwashed when older, who were not religious:

> It is as I said and religious predators who were child indoctrinated, or brainwashed themselves when older, or they are just scam artists, will prey on people who have an emotional vulnerability and exploit it.

> Crackpipe would be lying if he said that it wouldn’t make his day by finding someone in an emotionally vulnerable state that he could exploit into christianity.

> Crackpipe is a predator afterall.

> Like child molesters are predators too.

> Crackpipe would be selling his imaginary cure to his imaginary disease faster than the big bang itself happened.

– In retaliation to what Crackpipe quoted above about what The Templeton Foundation’s puppet Roger Finke said, I will quote Dr, Zimbardo…

“Whatever any member of a cult has done, you and I could be recruited or seduced into doing–under the right or wrong conditions. The majority of ‘normal, average, intelligent’ individuals can be led to engage in immoral, illegal, irrational, aggressive and self destructive actions that are contrary to their values or personality–when manipulated situational conditions exert their power over individual dispositions.”
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“Yet, BB(s)J wants you to believe masses of people can be and are brainwashed into large religions and aren’t aware of it…”
—————

Well it depends on what Crackpipe considers “large”.

– I never claimed that it was large amounts of people brainwashed when older, who were Atheists and then were brainwashed later to christianity or another religion.

> Though it could be.

– I do know that people are child indoctrinated in large numbers and lose the ability to be able to think on their own.

– I do know that people are exploited by being caught in a state of being emotionally vulnerable and if Crackpipe doesn’t agree that that is his favorite type of victim that he looks for then he’s just proved that he is a liar.

– I do know of 3 particular people who were brainwashed by being caught in an emotional vulnerability.

> William Lame Craig
> Lee Strobel
> Jim Wallace

> The 3 speak of when they converted, but they were all different ways.

> All 3 were caught in an emotional vulnerability.

> All 3 are now brainwashed slaves of a lie.

> Craig said “that as a teenager the holy spirit revealed himself to me” (which means that he was caught in an emotional vulnerability and he was brainwashed).

> Craig even says if there was no evidence and all the evidence pointed against, then he would still believe.

> Strobel said his wife kept taking him to church and he went out to disprove christianity and became a believer.

> Lee must not have tried very hard since his evidence and sources were the worst and were a case of Strobel being an imbecile, not a case for christ.

> Strobel’s wife said she went to church to convince herself that God exists, which indicates her emotional vulnerability.

> She then projected her brainwashing onto Strobel since every one of Lee’s arguments of “evidence of Jesus” in his movie “A Case For Christ” was non-existent, so what clearly happened was that she spread the faith virus disease on to Lee.

> Jim Wallace had the same thing.

> Jim went to church because he was invited and church projected certain fears and emotional weaknesses into him and he convinced himself of certain things in order to mentally deal with those vulnerabilities

– The fact that there is no truth to christianity because the bible is all a lie and Jesus was not divine, even if he did exist, proves they are brainwashed to believe a lie.

> Their emotional vulnerabilities cause them to believe things without evidence that are not true.

I will quote Dr. Zimbardo again:

“Whatever any member of a cult has done, you and I could be recruited or seduced into doing–under the right or wrong conditions. The majority of ‘normal, average, intelligent’ individuals can be led to engage in immoral, illegal, irrational, aggressive and self destructive actions that are contrary to their values or personality–when manipulated situational conditions exert their power over individual dispositions.”
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“But even his examples do not show this to be the case, as we will see. These are SPECIFIC cases that cannot be transposed upon masses and other beliefs.”

To show this mass effect is even possible, BB(s)J needs to provide a large scale brainwashing. Perhaps in a follow up post…”
—————-

Hmmm A follow up post?

– I really shouldn’t have to do a follow up post since I’ve written so many brainwashing articles to get people thinking and open their eyes, but since Crackpipe refuses to give my articles any credit because scientific studies aren’t included, then I suppose at a later date I could include another brainwashing article with some research included such as the ones that I included here in this article response.

> Thanks for another great idea Crackpipe for a blog article exposing christianity and all religions for the lies that they are.

> Your ideas and feedback will have definitely helped open the eyes of many brainwashed victims and make them become Atheists.

– Again, reminding everyone that I never claimed adults, or young adults were brainwashed in masses.

– Child indoctrination though is “in mass” and IS brainwashing,

– In all honesty, myself being the victim of brainwashing in more forms than just religion, aswell as having many friends and family who are brainwashed to religion, really does make me someone with good feedback on the subject.

> But of course Crackpipe will say anything to deflect and ignore.

– I guess that a good article with lots of research and scientific info would be a good idea and would probably convert a few people to reality if they seen the evidence.

> Great idea Crackpipe. You really have helped the cause of Atheism over the past few months.

> It would have to wait til I get Crackpipe’s list of lies finished and get “Evidence of Jesus is meaningless 2” finished too.

> I intend on taking a break from Crackpipe christian for a while, maybe for good, even though he will most likely respond to all these in a day after I send them.

> I won’t have time to respond to his next bunch of stupidity til about christmas holidays if I did decide to.

> Gotta write all the blog articles that Crackpipe gave me ideas for though.

– Whatever it takes I suppose to wake people up from the despicable evil that is religion.

– Whatever it takes to show people that they are living a lie and destroying the world and too brainwashed to see it.
————-

“Okay, what else do the experts say about cults and brainwashing?

Wikipedia tells us:
“James Richardson observes that if the NRMs had access to powerful brainwashing techniques, one would expect that NRMs would have high growth rates, yet in fact most have not had notable success in recruitment. Most adherents participate for only a short time, and the success in retaining members is limited.[35] For this and other reasons, sociologists of religion includingDavid Bromley and Anson Shupe consider the idea that “cults” are brainwashing American youth to be “implausible.”[36] In addition to Bromley, Thomas Robbins, Dick Anthony, Eileen Barker, Newton Maloney,Massimo Introvigne, John Hall, Lorne Dawson, Anson Shupe, Gordon Melton, Marc Galanter, Saul Levine (amongst other scholars researching NRMs) have argued and established to the satisfaction of courts, of relevant professional associations and of scientific communities that there exists no scientific theory, generally accepted and based upon methodologically sound research, that supports the brainwashing theories as advanced by the anti-cult movement.[37]”
—————–

LOL I love how Crackpipe has cherry picked and left out the best parts, which are right underneath what he copied and pasted. I mean if you look at the Wikipedia numbers you will see that it’s literally right underneath.

Like this:

Other scholars disagree with this consensus amongst sociologists of religion. Benjamin Zablocki asserts that it’s obvious that brainwashing occurs, at least to any objective observer; and that it isn’t “a process that is directly observable.”[38] The “real sociological issue”, Zabloki states, is whether “brainwashing occurs frequently enough to be considered an important social problem”.[39] Zablocki disagrees with scholars like Richardson, stating that Richardson’s observation is flawed.[40] According to Zablocki, Richardson misunderstands brainwashing, conceiving of it as a recruiting process, instead of a retaining process.[40] So although Richardson’s data are correct, Zablocki states, properly understood, brainwashing does not imply that NRMs will have a notable success in recruitment; so the criticism is inapt.[40] Additionally, Zablocki attempts to debunk the other criticisms Richardson, et al., apply to brainwashing: if Zablocki is correct, there’s a plethora of evidence in favor of the claim that some NRMs brainwash some of their members.[40] Perhaps most notably, Zablocki says, the sheer number of former cult leaders and ex-members who attest to brainwashing in interviews (performed in accordance with guidelines of the National Institute of Mental Health and National Science Foundation) is too large to be a result of anything other than a genuine phenomenon.[41]

– So let’s hear what these folks have to say:

Benjamin Zablocki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Zablocki

“Zablocki heads the Sociology department at Rutgers. He has published widely on the sociology of religion.[1][2][3]
Zablocki is a fervent supporter of what he calls ‘the brainwashing hypothesis’. The question is not whether brainwashing exists, he asserts, but to what extent.[4]”

Let’s see more:

Margaret Singer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Singer

– WOW! The woman certainly had credentials and seems that she dedicated her life to things of psychological research, including several different forms of BRAINWASHING.

> She even had an award named after her a year after she died.

– So let’s take a look at what happened with Margaret Singer’s research about religious brainwashing….

> Well that’s interesting.

> Says how her work was attacked and criticized because people in religious power didn’t want the TRUTH exposed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APA_Task_Force_on_Deceptive_and_Indirect_Methods_of_Persuasion_and_Control

> Not surprising that there were death threats and that religious people would stoop so low as to hide the TRUTH from the public.

> Just shows again how religion has no limits to how evil it can be and the measures it’s followers will go in order to maintain it’s control.

> Ben Zablocki agrees with the fact.

“Zablocki further alleges that brainwashing has been unfairly “blacklisted” from the academic journals of sociology of religion. Such blacklisters, Zablocki asserts, receive lavish funding from alleged cults and engage in “corrupt” practices.[4]”
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“A How Stuff Works article says:

“Likewise, many psychologists believe that large-scale brainwashing — via the mass media and subliminal messages, for instance — is not possible, because the thought-reform process requires isolation and absolute dependence of the subject in order to be effective. It’s just not that easy to change a person’s core personality and belief system.”
—————–

Many psychologists also believe that religious people in power and control, will abuse their power to bury and discredit those who want to expose the truth.

– As Dr. Zablocki said and I just pointed out.

“Zablocki further alleges that brainwashing has been unfairly “blacklisted” from the academic journals of sociology of religion. Such blacklisters, Zablocki asserts, receive lavish funding from alleged cults and engage in “corrupt” practices.[4]”
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“This is VERY important to remember, for when we look into BB(s)J’s examples. ABSOLUTE Dependence and isolation is required…”
——————

So again, if someone is caught in a state of being emotionally vulnerable, then they can be convinced and manipulated to not believe reality.

– The examples I provided have nothing to do with OTHER mental and emotional forms of brainwashing, that’s just Crackpipe trying to be misleading and imply that other forms of emotional exploitation doesn’t exist.

– It really doesn’t fit into whether or not I said that brainwashing adults in vast amounts when older exist, because I can tell you right now that that is not how I feel.

– Child indoctrination in huge numbers is reality though.
.
.
Crackpipe continues…

“And: “Regardless of which definition you use, many experts believe that even under ideal brainwashing conditions, the effects of the process are most often short-term — the brainwashing victim’s old identity is not in fact eradicated by the process, but instead is in hiding, and once the “new identity” stops being reinforced the person’s old attitudes and beliefs will start to return.”

So, EVEN IF brainwashing is possible, under IDEAL conditions it’s short term at best. Retention seems to be an issue…”
——————–

Actually no this isn’t true and I’ve listed 3 examples of this already.

Craig
Strobel
Wallace

– All 3 were brainwashed.

> All 3 are long term.

> All 3 were “born again” or “saved” as they refer to themselves.

> “Born again” is another way of saying “new identity” for themselves.

> Last I checked, all 3 of them thought of themselves completely different after as though they were different people afterward.

> Last I checked, all 3 of them aren’t changing anytime soon.

> The only way this isn’t true about them is if they know it’s all a scam and are just happy with the vast amounts of money they make and they laugh at how easy it is and at how stupid people really are.

> It’s one or the other, they’re brainwashed, or scam artists.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“And after a lengthy and in depth article Skeptic Dictionary says:
“It seems then, that if we define mind control as the successful control of the thoughts and actions of another without his or her consent, mind control exists only in fantasy. Unfortunately, that does not mean that it will always be thus.”

http://www.skepdic.com/mindcont.html
——————

BWAHAHAHA! Crackpipe has done it AGAIN!

– He’s sent me a link of something that he cherry picks for a quote, while giving me a whole bunch to use against him.

http://www.skepdic.com/mindcont.html

Here’s a few copy pastes from the site, so please tell me how Crackpipe was benefitting himself sending me the link?

In the section “Recruiters, kidnappings and inquistions”:

“Some recruits into non-mainstream religions seem to be brainwashed and controlled to the point that they will do great evil to themselves or others at the behest of their leader, including murder and suicide. Some of these recruits are in a state of extreme vulnerability when they are recruited and their recruiter takes advantage of that vulnerability. Such recruits may be confused or rootless due to ordinary transition difficulties (such as new college students), difficult life circumstances (such as failing in college or at a new job), or even tragic personal events (such as death of close friends or loved ones) or world events (such as war or terrorism). Some may be mentally ill or emotionally disturbed, greatly depressed, traumatized by self-abuse with drugs or abuse at the hands of others, etc. But it would not be to the advantage of the cult to actively recruit the emotionally disturbed. As one cult recruiter told me.”

– This is also what they said…

“Cults have complicated ideologies and practices that mentally or emotionally upset people have difficulty grasping. These structures are what allow the cult to control the person. Cults do not want people who are difficult to control.”

– Here’s more of people agreeing with me about “being vulnerable” which I talk about a lot….

“Thus, while some recruits might be very vulnerable to those who would like to control their thoughts and actions, recruiters look for people they can make vulnerable. The recruiter quoted above also said….”

“Cults seek out strong, intelligent, idealistic people. They also seek out the rich, no matter what their mental status is.”

“The goal is make the recruits vulnerable, to get them to give up whatever control over their thoughts and actions they might have. The goal is to make the cult members feel like passengers on a rudderless ship on a stormy sea. The recruiter or cult leader has a rudder and only he can guide the ship to safety.”

“The techniques available to manipulate the vulnerable are legion. One technique is to give them the love they feel they do not get elsewhere. Convince them that through you and your community they can find what they’re looking for, even if they haven’t got a clue that they’re looking for anything. Convince them that they need faith in you and that you have faith in them. Convince them that their friends and family outside the group are hindrances to their salvation. Isolate them. Only you can give them what they need. You love them. You alone love them. You would die for them. So why wouldn’t they die for you? But, love alone can only get you so far in winning them over. Fear is a great motivator. Fear that if they leave they’ll be destroyed. Fear that if they don’t cooperate they’ll be condemned. Fear that they can’t make it in this miserable world alone. The manipulator must make the recruit paranoid.”

“Love and fear may not be enough, however; so guilt must be used, too. Fill them with so much guilt that they will want to police their own thoughts. Remind them that they are nothing alone, but with you and a god (or some power or technique) they are Everything. Fill them with contempt for themselves, so that they will want to be egoless, selfless, One with You and Yours. You not only strip them of any sense of self, you convince them that the ideal is be without a self. Keep up the pressure. Be relentless. Humiliate them from time to time. Soon they will consider it their duty to humiliate themselves. Control what they read, hear, see. Repeat the messages for eyes and ears. Gradually get them to make commitments, small ones at first, then work your way up until you own their property, their bodies, their souls. And don’t forget to give them drugs, starve them, or have them meditate or dance or chant for hours at a time until they think they’ve had some sort of mystical experience. Make them think, “It was you, Lord, who made me feel so good.” They won’t want to give it up. They have never felt so good. Though they look as if they are in Hell to those of us on the outside, from the inside it looks like Heaven. ”

“What religion doesn’t use guilt and fear to get people to police their own thoughts? Even some therapists use similar methods to control their patients. They prey on the vulnerable. They demand total loyalty and trust as a price for hope and healing. They often isolate their prey from loved ones and friends. They try to own and control their clients. The methods of recruiters are not much different. Are the recruits, the converts to the faith, and the patients willing victims? How would we tell the difference between a willing victim and an unwilling victim? If we cannot do that, then we can’t distinguish any true cases of mind control.”

– Now I hope anyone reading the above can see the many things included that we see apologists and evangelists and churches and church leaders do.

– This still blows my mind that Crackpipe was so desperate that he had to use Skeptic’s dictionary to attempt to make a point, only to have it bury any point Crackpipe was making in a landslide.

– What a total loser Crackpipe is.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“And whatever brainwashing is, what it isn’t is forcing someone to make a choice they normally wouldn’t.

That is, to force someone to choose A or B when they wouldn’t pick either isn’t brainwashing.”
——————-

Let’s break things down again for Crackpipe since he’s either too in denial, too dishonest, or too stupid to get it. My guess is that it’s all 3.

Brainwashing is…

– Child indoctrination and mental conditioning to deny the truth are things drilled into children’s heads since birth, or very very young.

– If someone is caught in a state of emotional vulnerability, then religion can exploit that vulnerability by convincing the person of things that aren’t real, but also by convincing them (without evidence) that certain things are not true.

– By convincing people that fake evidence is true and by exploiting them, by abusing people’s trust and deceiving them, by the time they find out that certain things are lies, they will have been too absorbed in the religion that they won’t listen to reason anyway.

– This is why people will embrace the religion they were presented, because that was the religion they were exposed to when emotionally vulnerable.
.
.
Crackpipe continues…..

“Nor is it simply persuasion. That is making a certain proposition more attractive than another.

Influence is not control.”
——————

No but making someone feel worthless and afraid IS about control.

– If religion didn’t make people feel worthless and afraid then it wouldn’t exist.

– If religion didn’t make people feel worthless and afraid then people wouldn’t be vulnerable.

> If they weren’t feeling worthless, afraid and weren’t vulnerable then they wouldn’t allow themselves to believe the nonsense that they are exposed to that makes no sense and has no truth.

– If people weren’t exposed to the religion that they have the most influence and exposure to while vulnerable, or child indoctrinated, then they would simply have to find inner strength.

> Religion destroys inner strength.

> Religion causes people to be slaves of a lie.

> Religion causes people to not be able to deal with the truth and makes them mentally unable to deal with the fact that they have been lied to, are living a lie and the people they trusted have lied to them.
.
.
Crackpipe continues…..

“So does Christianity fit the bill?
BB(s)J believes so.

To show this, he uses small, specific instances. And we will see the stark contrasts between these examples and ones faith in their religion. As well as the fact that in two examples, pure “brainwashing” was not used.

FAITH in GOD not A MAN.

1) The Charles Manson Family:

BB(s)J links two YouTube videos. One about Susan Atkins, the other about Charles “Tex” Watson.

Susan says, her claim, that her actions were the result of brainwashing and drugs.

Could be.

Of course her youth wasn’t idyllic. And as she admitted she was a “seeker.” Manson fit the bill. So she hung around because she liked what he was saying.

But neither video goes into the “brainwashing” details.”
————

What Crackpipe is not telling us is that she was in a state of being emotionally vulnerable.

– Whatever means that put her in that state is irrelevant, she was in that state and she embraced what Charlie was offering.

– This IS BRAINWASHING and it fits the bill about everything that I was saying.

– Crackpipe FAILS to come up with any significant argument.

– In what universe is convincing multiple people that you’re God and that “God” wants you to kill for him, NOT BRAINWASHING?! WTF?!
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“So, looking for said info I came across this: http://www.aboundinglove.org/sensational/mrhmso/mrhmso-003.php

This is the same Charles from the 2nd video.

He gives us some great insight into the Manson family.

“Well, under the surface, what people couldn’t see was that we were living an isolated life in shacks and living hungry, on food foraged from dumpsters. Of course, there were the drugs we all took together and the lack of sleep that made us extremely open to suggestions, and the force of a stronger personality. I will say that sex in the Manson family has really been exaggerated by the media.”

There’s that isolated word as we have seen, in addition to other factors: lack of sleep, food, and drug use.

So one could say their minds were ripe for brainwashing.
——————–

Crackpipe is the biggest timewasting imbecile I’ve ever come across.

– How is this even a “point” he is making?

– By showing this article he is just showing my point, THAT BRAINWASHING EXISTS!

http://www.aboundinglove.org/sensational/mrhmso/mrhmso-003.php

– Seriously WTF?!

– Crackpipe is attempting to disprove brainwashing and dispove that religion is only brainwashing, by showing people being exposed to religions who are brainwashed and then AGREEING that they are brainwashed.

– Crackpipe would have done a better job of proving it wrong by simply doing what all apologists do and refuse to acknowledge brainwashing as anything but an insult and an attack.

> This is nothing but deflection, dishonesty and denial by not addressing brainwashing, but it really is the best they can do since there is no defense that RELIGION IS BRAINWASHING!

> Crackpipe is now proving why they don’t have any defense of brainwashing.
.
.
Crackpipe continues…..

“Yet Charles says him and others were afraid of him: “Charlie would simply look at members, and immediately they would fall silent. But at the same time, some were almost willing to die for him. Everyone wanted to please Charlie and was fearful of his opinion of them. Myself, I ran from him several times in fear.”

“I feel that Manson avoided sharing his beliefs with me in fear that I wouldn’t fall for them…. Of course, my own rebellion, disobedience and ignorance were to blame. The drugs were a stimulant making me gullible to believe what I wouldn’t normally believe. This took me into a death spiral downward to greater rebellion, emotional pain, drug consumption and worldly, fleshly pleasures.”

Now if Manson DID brainwash them all to COMPLETE obedience, why would he worry that someone wouldn’t believe him on certain beliefs?”
—————

What I find so unbelievably pathetic about Crackpipe is that he refuses to use his brain at all.

– I mean how hard would it have been to answer this when all it would take was a little effort in trying?

Pointing out the completely obvious:

>> Manson knew what he was doing and knew what had to be done in order to keep people under his spell.

>> Like all religions, leaders don’t want people to think about the truth.

>> Manson’s religion (like all religions) made no sense, but Manson didn’t have billions of people backing up his ridiculous nonsense religion, so he had to do whatever it took to keep people’s faith.

>> If Manson’s followers, or any other religion’s followers actually took the time to see how their religions make no sense, have no evidence and are nothing but a scam, then nobody would be relgious.

>> In case Crackpipe didn’t notice how similar Manson’s relgion was compared to christianity and that every day thousands of people are doing just that, waking up from their brainwashing.

>> I woke up from my brainwashing from religion many years ago and why Crackpipe thinks that people can’t wake up from brainwashing only proves that Crackpipe is too weak himself to do so and nothing else.

>> People who are brainwashed and are the slaves of a lie that makes no sense, don’t have to be and if they actually put in the effort they could unbrainwash themselves.

>> Very funny that Charles knew Charlie had brainwashed him, but then went and got brainwashed to christianity.

> Neither christianity or what Manson preached is any more believable than the other.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/manson/skelter_6.html

> The brainwashed will believe what they do and unless they realize things don’t make sense and that there’s nothing sane about it.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“Why would they “fear” him? Why weren’t they brainwashed to accept EVERYTHING Manson said and never fear him?

But Charles sums it up nicely: “Well, cults go after weak people. In my case, I was lacking a strong identity, direction and goals. I had no spiritual meaning, no sound belief system or feeling of acceptance. I was also naïve and gullible, a people-pleaser. I was empty, lonely and angry, allowing myself to slowly be governed by my own self-will and surroundings.”
—————

So Crackpipe’s point is what? That certain people are easier to brainwash than others? We know that.

But since Crackpipe is attempting to have a point, let’s break this down to show him how non-existent it is:

– Cults AND religions go after weak people.

> They are the only ones they can get to believe their nonsense which makes no sense and has no evidence.

> Unless they are child indoctrinated.

– If someone is “lacking an identity”, is really irrelevant when you think about it and only if they are stupid enough to believe the lies and nonsense.

> Also they have to be pushed into that stupidity by being in an emotionally vulnerable state.

> People’s emotions can make them behave stupid and do irrational things and believe nonsense.

– The fact that Charles is religious now and believes complete nonsense, but stopped believing Charlie’s nonsense, just proves that he substituted one nonsense for another nonsense.

> Also, Charles was clearly spiritual if he believed supernatural stupidity about Manson, so who does either Crackpipe, or Charles think they’re kidding?

– Also, how in any way is Charles an expert on brainwashing when he is clearly still brainwashed himself?

– Let’s also not forget that many very intelligent people who found religion when older also found religion to be a source of INCOME and probably aren’t even believers at all.

– I mean it takes one of 3 things to genuinely become religious when older:

> Being caught while emotionally vulnerable.

> They’re stupid.

> They’re neurotic.

– However, remember that people like Jim Wallace and Lee Strobel went to church and through repetition they had a vulnerability opened up.

> Or of course they simply seen it for what it is, which is an income which has made them millions.

– Now I’m not talking child indoctrinated here remember. I know many very brilliant indoctrinated people and that is an upbringing that is embedded in them so deep that they simply have their brains wiring altered.

> With work the wiring can be put back in place though.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“So what do we have here for the Manson family.

1. Small group of people. 16-25
2. They were isolated
3. Dependent

Which fits for possible brainwashing. But we haven’t looked at two other key factors:

Fear. And Willingness.

If someone were brainwashed to follow someone, why would fear be a part of this? Why wouldn’t the brainwasher be able to rid his followers of such fear?”
————-

Seriously mindblown that Crackpipe thinks he’s making any kind of point here.

– I also can’t believe what a hypocrite Crackpipe is since he is defending and representing christianity.

– Christianity and other religions put fear in place also.

– Let’s list a few:

> Fear of hell.

> Fear of God.

> Fear of Jesus.

> Fear of Satan.

> Fear of not going to heaven.

> Fear of no “rewards” in the afterlife.

> Fear of not having an afterlife.

> Fear of bad things happening to friends and family.

– The many over 40,000 sects of christianity in the world fear the above very much.

> With the same fear and believability that Manson’s followers had.

– Why would Manson, or any church leader be any different from each other?

> Fear is everything to belief and without fear there is no motivation to believe.

> If Crackpipe says any different then he’s lying.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“And in both cases above we see they were “seeking” and “allowed” themselves to be influenced.”
————

Which would have been perfect prey for the church if they had of gotten to them first.

> Maybe the westborough baptist church.

> Maybe some mormons.

> Maybe some jehovah’s witnesses.

> Maybe the klu klux klan.

> Maybe just your plain old evolution denying, science denying, Earth is only 6000 years old types of church.

> Maybe just one that handles poisonous snakes.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“And let’s not forget the fact Manson still has a following! There are NEW followers of his. Are they brainwashed? If so, how is he doing it from prison, and against their will?”
——————

Well obviously some morons converted other morons.

– Makes just as much sense as christianity if you think about it.

> No evidence Jesus was God, or even a real person.

> Charlie is a real person who actually is saying he’s God.

>> Point- Manson.

> Morons will brainwash other morons.

> People will be brainwashed to Manson’s story just like all religions will be brainwashed onto people for the same reasons.

> Morons will have kids and indoctrinate them.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“But let’s say they were brainwashed. Can their brainwashing be transposed to Christianity in general and to the mass of believers?

No.

To say yes, as BB(s)J presumably would is to say that Manson COULD have done this on a much larger scale.”
————–

I AM saying they were brainwashed.

I have no idea what Crackpipe is saying here though.

– Something about Manson working on a larger scale.

– I have no idea what he’s babbling about here.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“However, this couldn’t happen due to the fact that isolation and complete dependence are virtually impossible on a large scale.”
—————

This isolation thing Crackpipe keeps babbling has gotta stop.

– Isolation is just one of many factors.

– These cases I had shown were cases of brainwashing that couldn’t be denied.

– I was showing how brainwashing exists and how it can’t be denied that it exists.

> It still can’t be denied.

– These examples show it, but most of these people were child indoctrinated already, the cult was just s step forward that simply PROVES it!
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“Oh, but there was a large scale example right?

2) Jim Jones and Jonestown and over 700 people dead:

“Were they brainwashed? Of course they were. Would it have been wrong to tell them they were and try to save them before the mass suicide happened?”

Okay, but what’s weird is that the video BB(s)J links puts forth the argument most of the followers were MURDERED. That they DID NOT willingly choose to drink poison due to brainwashing.”

For some general information read here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown

—————

Crackpipe sure is desperate and nitpicky.

– The fact that they were there in the first place is brainwashing.

– The fact that they believed what they believed was brainwashing.

– The fact that they could be blinded into thinking this was normal was brainwashing.

– The fact that some of them might not have known it was poisoned doesn’t hide the fact that some of them did know.

– All of them were brainwashed to believe that they weren’t a cult.

– Brainwashed idiots murdered other brainwashed idiots WITH CONSENT to be murdered.

– Yeah please tell me how these quotes from the same wikipedia article Crackpipe is referring to don’t totally sound like these people were brainwashed.

“Survivor Odell Rhodes stated that while the poison was squirted in some children’s mouths, there was no panic or emotional outburst and people looked like they were “in a trance”.[145] This statement was a contradiction to the crying and screaming children heard throughout the majority of the testimonial death tape.[136]”

“In addition to Jim McElvane, several other temple members gave speeches praising Jones and his decision for the community to commit suicide, even after Jones stopped appreciating this praise and begged for the process to go faster.”

– Crackpipe just doesn’t get it.

> Thinking that it’s okay for someone to murder you and to murder your own children is not a normal way of thinking.

> Thinking that it’s okay to murder other people and that it’s a good thing, is not normal, so I really don’t see what Crackpipe’s point is.

> This could only be thought of by brainwashed victims of a lie.

> You have to wonder what Crackpipe is using as a defense here?

> So is Crackpipe saying that only a 100 people willingly committed suicide? How many?

> Is Crackpipe saying that the people who forced the members to drink, or injected others weren’t brainwashed?

> What part of the Jonestown massacre didn’t result from brainwashing?

> If they murdered someone who didn’t want to die then they were brainwashed to kill people.

> If they willingly killed themselves then they were brainwashed to kill themselves.

> If they drank kool-aid and died and didn’t know it really was poisoned, then they were poisoned by people who were brainwashed.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“So background info JJ and the Peoples Temple didn’t start so much as a cult but social/racial/political advocacy group, with Communist ideals.”
————

Who were brainwashed to think this way BECAUSE of their CHRISTIAN beliefs.

– They were already mostly child indoctrinated christians.

– Once brainwashed into a church it really isn’t that hard to mass manipulate people into doing things as a group.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“Jonestown was to be their Communist Paradise. People from TPT went willingly, and not everyone went or chose to go…”
—————

Amazing what the power of brainwashing will do then right?

– Amazing what the power of religious brainwashing will do.

– Amazing how people will deny the existence of religious brainwashing when they don’t see that that is the reason people do absolutely insane things willingly.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“But once they got there, they must have been brainwashed to the point where they would stay and knowingly drink poison without a second thought, right?

Not really.

Take from the video BB(s)J provided, there were reports of abuse and torture.

From this Atlantic article we learn that people were abused, blackmailed, and otherwise coerced into choosing to stay, though they didn’t want to.”
————-

So because of their brainwashing they believed in christianity.

– Because of their brainwashing they followed Jim Jones and the people’s temple.

– Because of brainwashing they got there to Jonestown in the first place.

– Because of brainwashing they were murdered.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“Quote: “One guy tried to leave and Jim said he’d use his paper against him so he’d never see his children again. So he came back. The thing was, too, that Jim would not let children off the compound. So if you were going to leave, you were leaving your child. There was no way of getting a child out of Jonestown.”
————

What a wonderful christian church the people’s temple was.

– Where was God, or Jesus again in all this?

> Oh yeah that’s right, they don’t exist.

– Typical delusional psychotic christian church though.

> Believing lies.

> Hiding abuse.

> Believing in Jesus and the afterlife.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“And from this article:

“In Guyana, Wagner-Wilson said followers were starved, beaten, forced to work all day, and held prisoner in the compound, fearful to speak out.”

“I learned after the massacre that he drugged people on the outpost there to keep them from trying to leave, to keep them from trying to dissent, to control them in different ways, all unbeknownst to the masses.”

ANY use of force is not brainwashing.”
—————-

Crackpipe is just so unbelievably dumb.

– There were over 900 people in the cult and many people who were abused didn’t even know they were abused.

– The brainwashing caused those in the cult to hide that anything was truly wrong to themselves.

– Nothing Crackpipe has said has proven how Jonestown people were not brainwashed in one form or another.

– It was one or more of these forms of brainwashing that caused them to murder both themselves and each other.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“So numerous were these reports even at the time that Congressman Leo Ryan went to Jonestown to investigate.”
————

Typical church though.

– Lots of abuses.

– Lots of cover-ups.

– Lots of brainwashing.

– Lots of people being controlled and manipulated.

– Lots of people living a lie and being prisoners (mentally or physically).

– Lots of people told they will get a reward if they serve the leader and do what he wants (whether the leader is living or dead).
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“But what of the poisoning? The 900-plus men, women, and children who appear to have been “brainwashed” into drinking it?

Brainwashing or murder?

“I believe that this was a mass murder. First of all, there were over 200 children who could not have formed the intent to commit suicide. Second, Jim Jones had isolated his people and conditioned them through suicide rehearsals and mock sieges to accept death. Third, he orchestrated the events on that final day so that the outcome was never in doubt. He had gunmen go shoot the Congressman. Then he turned around to his followers, once he got news the Congressman was dead, and announced it. He said, now some among us have done something that’s going to cause the army to come in here and nobody will be safe. Let’s bring forward the potion and let’s bring the children first. By having the children die first, he sealed the fate of their parents and other elders, because no one would have any reason to live. As this was all going on, the pavilion was surrounded with armed guards with guns and crossbows, so people were not going to go anywhere. Many appeared to have been injected with poison.”
http://content.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1859903-2,00.html

By this account, sure doesn’t sound like brainwashed zombies willing to kill themselves.”
——————–

Crackpipe is just such a total moron. I really can’t put into words how much I dislike him. Oh well, at least he gives me ideas for blog articles to write which show how christianity is a lie and how all religion is harmful.

Let’s list the multiple reasons why this is obviously brainwashing and how Crackpipe is an absolutely out of his mind numbskull:

– They rehearsed the suicide.

> If you are rehearsing mass suicide and think that it’s all going to be ok because you’ll go to heaven, then that is obviously brainwashing.

– The people who poisoned their kids willingly only did it willingly because of brainwashing.

> People don’t normally kill their kids and think everything is going to be okay unless they are brainwashed.

> People who aren’t brainwashed will normally put up more of a fight against killing their kids.

– The guards surrounding Jonestown with guns and crossbows were brainwashed too.

> Why else would a bunch of people hold guns on people and surround a town just so those people they were surrounding would kill themselves, unless they were BRAINWASHED?

> Why then would the people with guns and crossbows surrounding the town kill themselves too unless they were BRAINWASHED?

– And seriously what the heck is that stupid idiot Crackpipe talking about that they didn’t sound like brainwashed zombies?

> They didn’t sound like anything else BUT brainwashed zombies!

> How much more brainwashed can you get by killing your kids and yourself because your spiritual leader told you?

> How much more brainwashed can you get by pointing guns at people and making sure they killed themselves?

– Does Crackpipe not get yet that he really is an idiot and that only an imbecile would think that this isn’t brainwashing?

– He really should reflect on about how christianity is a lie aswell and that if he is dumb enough to believe christianity and Jonestown aren’t brainwashing then there is a good chance he’s wrong about that too.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“In fact many wanted to leave, some did. Some were killed for trying. Why? If they were brainwashed?

Is that to say some didn’t willingly kill themselves?

Of course not, some surely did. But where they brainwashed or just such true believers in the cause that they truly thought their suicide was a rebellion of sorts?”
————-

Some were killed for trying? How? They made them drink the poison?

– They could have refused to drink it.

– They could have refused to kill their kids.

– They found only 2 people who were killed with bullets not including the airplane attack and one of them was Jones himself and a woman who was a close member to Jones who shot herself.

> Everyone else died by poison.

> Did Crackpipe miss that part?

– How about this part where the shooter of the plane escaped going jail?

> What was his defense?

As shown:

“Larry Layton, who had fired a gun at several people aboard the Cessna, was originally found not guilty of attempted murder in a Guyanese court, employing the defense that he was “brainwashed”.[170] ”

> Obviously some people seen that he was brainwashed.

> So Crackpipe can disagree with the lawyers and judge on that one if he wants, but that won’t change a thing.

– Now why Crackpipe thinks that people can’t escape brainwashing for some reason is mindblowing.

– Just because Crackpipe is so far down the hole for being brainwashed to christianity, which is a completely nonsensical lie which has no evidence, doesn’t mean other people can’t escape it.

> I escaped brainwashing from religion and if you look on Twitter you’ll see tons of Atheists who escaped christianity, in fact most of the Atheists on Twitter were religious at one time but escaped.

> It really isn’t that hard when you consider the facts.

> Crackpipe is just too weak and pathetic to handle the truth.

– The fact that some people left to go with the senator just proves that some people realized the situation was a bad deal, BECAUSE IT WAS!

> Not everyone was as brainwashed and stupid as the assumed majority?were.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“Well, let’s looks at what’s needed for brainwashing again:

1) isolation
2) total dependence
3) small group”
————-

Ugh This is just painful to have to deal with. What is wrong with this idiot Crackpipe?

– It seems that Dr. Crackpipe is attempting to tell us these are his 3 ways he knows about that cause people to be brainwashed.

– This couldn’t be farther from the truth.

– I guess I will just have to repaste Dr. Zimbardo again from the wikipedia link that Crackpipe sent me.

“Zimbardo, Philip G. (November 2002). “Mind Control: Psychological Reality or Mindless Rhetoric?”. Monitor on Psychology. Retrieved 2008-12-30. “Mind control is the process by which individual or collective freedom of choice and action is compromised by agents or agencies that modify or distort perception, motivation, affect, cognition and/or behavioral outcomes. It is neither magical nor mystical, but a process that involves a set of basic social psychological principles. Conformity, compliance, persuasion, dissonance, reactance, guilt and fear arousal, modeling and identification are some of the staple social influence ingredients well studied in psychological experiments and field studies. In some combinations, they create a powerful crucible of extreme mental and behavioral manipulation when synthesized with several other real-world factors, such as charismatic, authoritarian leaders, dominant ideologies, social isolation, physical debilitation, induced phobias, and extreme threats or promised rewards that are typically deceptively orchestrated, over an extended time period in settings where they are applied intensively. A body of social science evidence shows that when systematically practiced by state-sanctioned police, military or destructive cults, mind control can induce false confessions, create converts who willingly torture or kill ‘invented enemies,’ and engage indoctrinated members to work tirelessly, give up their money—and even their lives—for ‘the cause.”

– Let’s list what he says that causes brainwashing and specifically list them so Crackpipe finally gets it:

Mind control is…

– When agents modify and alter perception, motivation, affect, cognition and/or behavioral outcomes.

> This would be religious people pushing religion on people and convincing them that it’s true.

> Religion is pushed on people even though it makes no sense and has no evidence.

> Victims of religious brainwashing refuse to see that there is no difference of their religion and all other religions that they don’t believe in and make no sense to them.

> Part of their brainwashing causes them to refuse to see.

– A process that involves a set of basic social psychological principles. Conformity, compliance, persuasion, dissonance, reactance, guilt and fear arousal, modeling and identification.

> Conformity- When everyone is just so force fed religion and they see religion everywhere and believed by everyone, they find it unlikely that so many people are deceived and lied to.

> They find it highly unlikely that people they trust and respect and think are highly intelligent could possibly be wrong and are in denial that they could be.

> Compliance- People just go with the flow and refuse to question anything, or even question themselves.

> Persuasion- People are fed colorful lies from people they trust and encouraged to deny truth and reassured to believe things without evidence that make no sense.

> Guilt- As I said before, religion makes people think they are broke and in need of fixing.

> It makes people think they have an imaginary disease and need an imaginary cure.

> It attempts to say that there is even such a thing as a “sin” even though there is no logical reason that even if a god did exist that it would care what anyone did.

> There is afterall no such thing as “sin”, there is only RIGHT or WRONG as determined by socially evolved standards and definitions.

> It attempts to say that even though there is shown to be no truth to the bible at all and nothing about the bible makes any sense, that a nonsensical psychopath named Yahweh and a hippi rabbi are the same person and are loving and have made a list of things they don’t want you to do, like masturbate and be gay.

> Religion attempts to make us ashamed of ourselves because of how we are born and because it wants people to believe an omnipotent sky being will convict us of “thought crime”.

> Social isolation- This is what Crackpipe keeps refering to, but in a way he hasn’t realized, because he keeps refering to “isolation”.

> If people are “socially isolated” with religion by making them feel like outcasts from their friends, family, community and even their country, then that will have a strong influence on people and will not only affect their judgement, but make them too subconciously afraid to even test their faith.

> Dominant ideologies- Things like hating gays and hating yourself if you are gay can become a mutual and harmful ideology brought on by religion.

> Fear- Religions push fears onto people whether they are already child indoctrinated or not.

> Religion causes people to be talked into the idea that invisible beings with no evidence and who make no sense have nothing better to do than punish and torture people for ridiculous things that they would have no reason to care about.

> Religion forces the “better safe than sorry schtik” on people who really are simply taking peoples words and not taking the time to research and don’t know how.

> Again I recommend the Michael Sherlock book “I am Christ” for a full grasp on how christianity really is based on nothing but a lie. Michael really breaks everything down.

http://www.michaelsherlock.org/my-books.html?m

> The promised rewards- Christianity is just full of those promised rewards that religious people become psychologically addicted to.

> Religious people become so psychologically addicted to their promised rewards that they become completely mentally dependent on believing the lies so much that to merely entertain the idea to them that they are lies becomes mentally painful and extremely uncomfortable.

> This type of mental pain and uncomfortability relgious people feel when you tell them anything about their religion being a lie and their imaginary rewards being untrue is called “cognitive dissonance”.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“They certainly were isolated.

As they had given all their worldly possessions to the cause, so They did have dependence on JJ, as their leader, and each other.

Perhaps one could argue that JT wasn’t a small group, but then if that’s the case we lack ideal conditions for brainwashing to occur.”
————–

I just listed a bunch of reasons above. Do look again.

– There are plenty of ideal conditions though.

> Child indoctrination (as repeatedly mentioned).

> Media with television and the religions that are mostly dominant in the countries that they are pushed onto people.

> Social and family pressure where being non-religious or of another religion are bigotted against.

> Religious people like this vile douchbag Crackpipe who tries to push his lies and religion on people to try to get them to believe it.

– That brings up a good point that I just thought of.

> Crackpipe wants evidence of brainwashing then he should look into a mirror.

> How does Crackpipe not see that not only is he brainwashed, but that he is HIMSELF evidence of brainwashing spreading like the disease that it is?

> If Crackpipe thinks of himself good at apologetics and defending his religion, then he just admitted that he is a form
of brainwashing.

> As I said before though that the only people who will listen to him are people who are emotionally vulnerable.

> The only type of people, that people like Crackpipe will convince though are people who are emotionally vulnerable and will mostly convince themselves and won’t do any research.

> They are afterall the perfect victims that people like Crackpipe hope to find.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“However this needs to be an example of pure brainwashing for BB(s)J’s argument to hold ANY water.

It would have to be shown, undoubtedly, that all 700 plus adults were brainwashed into drinking the poison and no force/coercion can be evident.

But we clearly don’t have that here, even with the ideal conditions in place.

Why?”
—————–

LOL That’s hilarious that Crackpipe is attempting to tell us that this only applies to HIS standards of brainwashing.

– Obviously there are different levels and different types of brainwashing and I’ve listed different types and psychological experts have listed them too.

– For Crackpipe to imply that every single member had to be the exact same level of brainwashing and the exact same types is just ridiculous and pathetically misleading.

– Everything about Jonestown was completely ridiculous and there had to be some people who had started to get their head on straight and realized it was a bad thing.

– Everyone there was there for a reason and you can guess that it was to share Jones’ mission and dream and to worship Jesus, since Jesus and the bible were what Jones was using to control everone with.

> They already had a headstart being child indoctrinated, so the rest of the lies that Jones fed them were easy for them to eat up.

> Like all churches the Peoples Temple was no different in the sense that some people came to their senses with the nonsense and woke up to reality.

– The whole Jonestown situation was a bad deal and to deny that there were probably some people who woke up from the brainwashing situation and possibly weren’t brainwashed at all, would be unlikely to think there weren’t a few.

– To think however that most of these lunatics in Jonestown were not stone cold nuts and a few donuts short of a baker’s dozen because they were brainwashed, would just be insane

– The fact that they were christians and religious at all indicates that they were brainwashed whether they ever even moved to Jonestown or not.

– If idiots can be convinced that they can get bitten by snakes and not die, well if that isn’t brainwashing then I don’t know what is.

> Jonestown was far more psychotic then the snake handlers because they at least knew they were going to die after they drank the poison, but still did it.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“And let’s not forget that multiple forms of coercion were used, especially at the end…

So again we do not have a clear case of actual brainwashing. Especially for a larger group, which BB(s)J needs to establish can happen to show it IS happening…”
—————

Of course we do and I will gladly list them.

– We have the fact that they were religious in the first place which is brainwashing.

– We have parents killing their kids without a fight.

– We have a bunch of people who willingly killed themselves.

– We have people who aimed guns and crossbows at people who wanted to leave and then the people with crossbows and guns willingly poisoned themselves.

– We have one of the shooters of the plane escaping his jail sentence by using the “brainwashing” defense.

– So this bull that Crackpipe is muttering about me not having a clear case of brainwashing is completely misleading and ridiculous, or he doesn’t know this and really is an idiot.

> I say that it’s because he’s an idiot and a liar.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“3) Waco Texas, The Branch Dividian and David Koresh: “I don’t hear anyone saying that Koresh and people from the Branch Dividian shouldn’t have been told that Koresh was crazy and that following his cult was a bad idea.”

Well, doing something that’s a bad idea doesn’t require brainwashing. Nor is just believing something that is wrong…”
————

In what way is stockpiling guns with women and children in a compound waiting for the end of the world and following a guy who claims to be the next incarnation of Jesus ….not a bad idea?

– What part of crazy and brainwashed is Crackpipe not seeing here?

– What part of “bad idea only believed because of brainwashing” is Crackpipe not seeing here also?
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“In addition, decades after the events at Waco if folks were truly brainwashed, the should not be any longer. His influence is no longer in play, they no longer are isolated from the outside world, not dependent upon him.

But are there still believers?

At least one: http://m.nydailynews.com/news/national/waco-survivor-waiting-david-koresh-resurrection-article-1.1734205#bmb=1

If even under IDEAL circumstances brainwashing is short term, how then is it that this man STILL believes?”
—————–

LOL This is unbelievable. Crackpipe is trying to disprove brainwashing by presenting me with a complete whacko who thinks David Koresh was Jesus and is coming back soon resurrected.

– Meanwhile Crackpipe is brainwashed believing in just plain old Jesus who supposedly died almost 2000 years ago, even though he has no evidence.

– So what part of this man’s story does Crackpipe believe, or disbelieve?

– If Crackpipe doesn’t believe the man then Crackpipe needs to tell us why he doesn’t believe the man and why?

– If Crackpipe doesn’t believe Clive Doyles’s “story” (as in his religious belief) then Crackpipe needs to tell us what makes Crackpipe’s belief true as opposed to Doyle’s?

– This talk from Crackpipe about why the survivor Clive Doyle shouldn’t be brainwashed anymore because he is no longer “isolated” is so completely hypocritical and laughable.

> He still is brainwashed to a sect of christianity.

> He still is associated with people from the cult who reinforce the belief with each other.

> The members never stopped isolating themselves to their absurd delusion, which is only slightly different than the every day ridiculous christian version that Crackpipe believes in.

> If Crackpipe doesn’t think that religion is brainwashing then how come Clive Doyle’s belief about David Koresh being Jesus and coming back someday sounds crazy to Crackpipe.

> There really is a big similarity between Crackpipe’s religion and Doyle’s but Crackpipe can’t explain why Doyle believing Koresh coming back isn’t brainwashing if Crackpipe doesn’t believe it to be true.

> Why does Doyle believe it, but Crackpipe doesn’t and why do muslims believe islam if Crackpipe doesn’t and why do mormons believe in mormonism if Crackpipe doesn’t?

> The most important of course is why do Atheists, agnostics, or even theists not believe in any of those religions?

– The fact is that Doyle was most likely child indoctrinated to christianity anyway, which means that he is used to believing things without evidence.

> Like the People’s Temple members who had an indoctrinated christian base, it doesn’t take much to get them to believe even further stupidity that makes no sense and has no evidence.

– The cognitive dissonance of Doyle is what prevents him from waking up to reality, because at 72 the fact that he has wasted his entire life on a lie is just far too mentally painful to deal with.

> Which is the same with Crackpipe because he is simply too much of a mental weakling to be able to mentally deal with the truth.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“BB(s)J believes there’s only one possible answer…”
———–

No I gave many answers but will list them again so they’re clearer.

– Child indoctrinated people are people who have had their brain rewiring done at a very young age and have been conditioned to believe the lies they were raised to believe and disregard everything that goes against it.

– Crackpipe can’t deny child indoctrination exists and how that is why muslims are muslims and christians are christians.

– The branch davidian members have stuck together and isolated themselves socially from allowing anyone from affecting their belief.

– They have reinforced their beliefs to each other and kept up their delusion and even had more kids and indoctrinated them and stengthened their beliefs.

– Very similar to whether Jesus existed or not and how people reacted to either the myth, or the fact that he died and couldn’t have been the messiah.

> People were forcefed a delusion and that delusion could be altered at will to change to fit any way they wanted to in their minds to tell themselves that delusion is true.

> No different than when some christians change their story and beliefs as new evidence appears such as evolution evidence and the age of the Earth, but still believe the bible, or Jesus being God.

> Lying and changing someone’s story in their head in order to make them feel more comfortable, is nothin more than a self defense mechanism for the mind and just an affect made from cognitive dissonance.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“4) People who have a cult leader who say they are Jesus.

What other reason is there that people follow these men besides brainwashing?

Um…choice?

BB(s)J sounds very familiar to the anti-cult movement cited in the Wikipedia article…can’t see any other way…

He can’t fathom that people would willingly choose to follow someone or believe what someone tells them. Or that they would TRULY believe these men…”
—————

Ok I really have to be honest and say that after I finish this article and a list of all Crackpipe’s lies and then finish the “Evidence of Jesus is meaningless 2 article” and post them, that I am just going to ignore him, ignore his blog and forget that Crackpipe christian even exists.

– I really can’t mentally deal with the reality that a person as stupid and pathetic as Crackpipe really exists.

> Crackpipe wastes so much of my time and I can only take so much of his stupidity then I have to walk away.

> The funny thing is that Crackpipe then doesn’t understand why I have my comments section disabled.

– There is no other way that someone believes supernatural nonsense that has no evidence and makes no sense unless they have been child indoctrinated, or an emotional vulnerability has been exploited that they forced themselves to believe something.

– Then Crackpipe says that I “don’t understand why people would willingly follow these men”.

> Not true because I KNOW that the only reasons are because of child indoctrination and brainwashing someone, because they are child indoctrinated to believe things, or brainwashed by having an emotional vulnerability exploited.

> They have been mentally conditioned to believe something and also mentally conditioned to deny that their psychotic beliefs aren’t true.

> Crackpipe still has not given us any reason why people would believe things that make no sense and have no evidence and why they don’t listen to truth and evidence.

– Crackpipe mutters something about how I can’t understand how people could just believe and follow someone!

> Yes of course I do and it’s called “brainwashing”.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“5) Tricking people into being brainwashed to a religion, or cult really isn’t that hard. It just takes a person who knows what to say and do and people who are vulnerable and want to be brainwashed.”

“Want to be brainwashed.”

Interesting.

So BB(s)J at least admits that not EVERY case of alleged brainwashing is not voluntary. Well, that would make it unnecessary. That would make it…not brainwashing…”
—————-

Crackpipe really is desperate and pathetic and grasping at straws.

– So let’s examine what Crackpipe says above here:

> (Correcting Crackpipe) I never said that all cases of brainwashing were not voluntary and in fact said the opposite.

> I said that people are religious because of child indoctrination, or because they have had an emotional vulnerablity exploited.

> After being child indoctrinated, christians are quite willing to volunteer themselves to things like cults after being open to believing in nonsense that has no evidence.

> Brainwashing IS child indoctrination.

> Brainwashing IS ALLOWING yourself to become vulnerable.

> People who are confused and troubled in life will be open to deluding themselves with ridiculous things like “signs” and they will embrace the brainwashing.

> After believing the lies they will continue to believe in more lies.

– Though religous brainwashing can victimize the unsuspecting….

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control

“Meanwhile, in Influence, Science and Practice, social psychologist Robert Cialdini argues that mind control is possible through the covert exploitation of the unconscious rules that underlie and facilitate healthy human social interactions. He states that common social rules can be used to prey upon the unwary. Using categories, he offers specific examples of both mild and extreme mind control (both one on one and in groups), notes the conditions under which each social rule is most easily exploited for false ends, and offers suggestions on how to resist such methods.[33]

> Religious brainwashing most definitely takes advantage of the “lost” and confused though since they are obviously easier to influence.

> People who take advantage and corrupt these people are predators afterall, like Crackpipe is a predator.

– As Kathleen Taylor explains in her book “Brainwashing: The Science of Thought Control”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing:_The_Science_of_Thought_Control

She explains that repetition is an integral part of brainwashing techniques because connections between neurons become stronger when exposed to incoming signals of frequency and intensity.[10]

> This shows how Lee Strobel and Jim Wallace got converted against their will.

> However they had the illusion that they were willingly converting themselves.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“They’re everywhere.
As shown here how easy it is:
http://content.time.com/time/video/player/0,32068,971515233001_2075202,00.html”

Interesting teaser to the film, hope it gets on Netflix, I would be interested in seeing it.

Seems BB(s)J 1) missed the point of the film (if he saw it).
—————

Crackpipe is such a loser. Of course I watched the clip and Crackpipe is the one who obviously missed the point.

– My points were these:

> How easy it is to seduce others into a state of “spirituality”.

> How easy it is to seduce people into believing in a supernatural connection with something, or somebody.

> How the gullible are so easy to manipulate into believing someone is a prophet.

> How someone doing exactly what he did 2000 years ago could have easily started a religion of his own.

– These points above show exactly how easy it is to brainwash people.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“But from the clip what we DO see is people WILLINGLY coming to follow (or at least listen to) this “guru.” In addition, the director (and star) makes no bones about what he is doing, and doesn’t say he trying to brainwash people.

I would argue that INTENT of the person DOING the brainwashing is important – we have no intent of brainwashing here. The director stated his purpose, brainwashing wasn’t one of them.”
—————-

Crackpipe is AGAIN showing how stupid he is. I mean seriously, I can’t believe it!

– The director was showing how easy it is to mislead people.

– If he did want to brainwash people he easily could have, in fact many people WERE.

– They were deluded into following Kumare and believing in him.

> They believed in his lies (that he was a prophet) Yes I am aware of his honesty that he wasn’t a prophet.

> They believed he was divine somehow.

> They believed he was a “prophet”.

> They were brainwashed.

> Just like people believed that Jesus was divine and a prophet and that belief evolved into “God”.

> Just like Crackpipe is brainwashed.

> Here’s a different 5 minute youtube vid talking about the film:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Liqtk_qV0PE

> He says in this clip that he had Jesus in mind when he made the film and also says he wanted to show the absurdity of religious leaders.

> A woman even calls him divine in the movie.

> Crackpipe is an absolute imbecile if he watches this and doesn’t see that one of the things the filmmaker is trying to show is how willing people are to be fooled.

> Crackpipe is a complete idiot if he doesn’t see that the filmmaker is trying to show how easy it is to develop a religion and have people worship you.

> Crackpipe is an unbelievable moron if he thinks that the filmmaker isn’t saying how easy it is to brainwash people into believing a lie and dedicating themselves to it.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“We don’t even have the IDEAL conditions: isolation, dependence, etc.

BB(s)J is equates someone erroneously believing something with brainwashing.

That is, telling someone a lie and them believing it is NOT brainwashing. Brainwashing needs to manifest the belief they otherwise wouldn’t have…

So this bit of “evidence” for brainwashing, really isn’t…”
————–

Crackpipe is of course wrong and doing nothing but attempting another one of his little dismissals that he does, that Crackpipe thinks just makes him magically right.

– Crackpipe’s pathetic, misinforming and dishonest words do nothing but show how desperate he is and how lacking a defense he has.

– He lists TWO ideal conditions, “isolation and dependence” and then “etc”, which are not dismissing of anything other than any hope of Crackpipe proving religion isn’t brainwashing.

– This “isolation” that Crackpipe keeps talking about is not a necessary thing that is needed for brainwashing, no matter how many times Crackpipe tries to say that it is.

> Regardless anyways, Kumare’s disciples were doing their best to isolate themselves to him and to what he was saying.

> The “dependence” part is not a necessary thing either to be brainwashed to a religion, but as it turns out there were several people who were developing a dependence on Kumare and his teachings.

– Last I checked “etc” was meaningless.

– So let’s go through it again:

> Believed a lie and thought Kumare was “divine” or supernatural.(brainwashing)

> Thought of Kumare as a religious leader which would mean he was the leader of a religion. (brainwashing)

> If people follow a religious leader then they follow a religion also. (brainwashing)

> The religion wasn’t real, but people followed it and Kumare and based their lives around him, so they were brainwashed to both Kumare and his religion. (brainwashing)

– It is undeniable that Ghandi had fooled and brainwashed them with Kumare and if he had wanted to he could have easily completely taken advantage of thousands of people.

– He simply took advantage of something that many people desperately look for which is “a need to believe in the supernatural”.

> This is of course one of many emotional vulnerabilities that are exploited.

> This need to believe is what Kumare exploited and showed the world how truly easy it was.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“6) Also we know for a fact that child indoctrination is brainwashing and nothing else.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uYtYQ0a7btQ
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ppQhleVuWPM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LY8WCAkXEp8

This is completely undeniable that this is brainwashing and completely unavoidable that this is true that this is evil and a complete violation.”

Well, none of the videos BB(s)J actually gives us any scientific evidence of this….”
—————

Ok now I hope that anybody reading this will now see how desperate and dishonest and absolutely misleading that Crackpipe really is.

– What scientific evidence is necessary that I didn’t show?

> The kids were fed a belief since they were very very young that they were discouraged from not believing.

> They were subjected to fear and threat of punishment for not believing.

> They were fed the belief that there was a great reward, which of course is a lie, has no evidence and is just something used to control them.

> The kids were fed the same lie that their parents were fed and mentally conditioned to not know any different and psychologically rewired to ignore evidence against that belief.

> Crackpipe cannot say that there’s no evidence of this.

> This IS child indoctrination, just like the definitions say.

http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/indoctrinate

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indoctrination

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?rd=1&word=indoctrination

http://eepat.net/doku.php?id=habermas_and_the_problem_of_indoctrination

> They CLEARLY SAY how raising a child into believing a religion and programming their beliefs into them is CHILD INDOCTRINATION.

> They CLEARLY say how child indoctrination is BRAINWASHING.

– Crackpipe is attempting to make people dismiss simple deinitions that speak the TRUTH.

> Unlike Crackpipe’s life of lies and dishonesty, to both other people and himself.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“But let’s say BB(s)J is right…that a parent PUSHING their belief on their child is indoctrination – is it indoctrination if an atheist parent does it as well?

Let’s wait for BB(s)J to answer that before moving forward here on this specific issue…”
————

No Atheism is not indoctrination, just like Atheism is not a religion, or a belief.

Let’s compare….

– Just like Atheism is not a religion, or a belief, but the lack of a religion, or belief.

> Atheist parents are not indoctrinating their kids to anything because they are only showing children things that are scientific and observable, or they just leave children to figure things out for themselves.

> Just like christians don’t indoctrinate their kids to other people’s religions, just their own, Atheists just so happen to not indoctrinate kids to ANY religions.

> Atheism is simply the fact that we do not believe in any gods, or religions because there is no evidence to believe ANY religions, so why would we?

> List all the reasons Crackpipe doesn’t believe mormonism, or islam and I will use those exact same reasons to say why I don’t believe christianity.

> Atheism is simply the NEUTRAL position and the same reasons that Crackpipe wouldn’t push scientology on a child and raise them that way are the same reasons Atheists don’t push ANY religions on kids.

> Crackpipe has no evidence any religion is true and can’t say how ANY religion makes any sense.

> The ONLY reason that Crackpipe believes his religion is because that is the one that he was child indoctrinated to, or brainwashed later on because he was caught in a state of emotional vulnerability.

> As I mentioned earlier Crackpipe gives us no details about how he became a christian and which of the 2 types of brainwashing was used on him.

> The reasons he does not disclose the method that he became a christian was not mentioned on purpose.

> Crackpipe knows that any answer he gives regarding HOW and WHY he was made a believer in christianity would just expose him as brainwashed.

> So Crackpipe knows the evidence shows him to be brainwashed, but he is just pretending to not realize. Nice.

– If a kid asks their parent “why are there rainbows?” an Atheist parent says “I don’t know” or tells them the reason, or looks it up on wikipedia…..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow

> A christian parent will then pull out the bible and quote Genesis chapter 9 and tell them “God created rainbows to remind us of the flood and that he won’t kill everyone in a flood ever again”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbows_in_mythology

> But won’t tell them that the story is just a rip off of the way older story “The Epic of Gilgamesh”.

– An Atheist parent isn’t indoctrinating their kids with evolution for the following reasons….

> Evolution isn’t indoctrination, it’s sound PROVEN science.

http://ideonexus.com/2012/02/12/101-reasons-why-evolution-is-true/

> If an Atheist doesn’t know something they say “I don’t know”.

> What we do know is that no religion makes any sense and there is no evidence for any religion being true, so WHY would we tell them anything that is the equivalent of “magic did it”?

> Not infecting kids with lies without evidence that make no sense is the same as not infecting them with a mental illness that affects their judgement.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“7) How are muslim suicide bombers who blow themselves up to please Allah and have sex with 72 virgins, not brainwashing again?”

Well, I can’t speak to what Muslim suicide bombers believe and whether or not it’s the result of brainwashing.

But let’s ask ourselves a simple question first: is a person who simply commits suicide brainwashed?”
————–

Ok this is just another example of why I am just going to ignore Crackpipe and his stupid blog after I post all these things I said I would post and reply to.

– Crackpipe can’t seriously be for real can he?

– No, someone who simply commits suicide is not brainwashed.

– Someone who dies to please a god however, IS brainwashed.

– Someone who kills themself because they think that a god wants them
to, is brainwashed.

– Someone who thinks that killing themself will get them a reward and that when they die they really aren’t dying, is brainwashed.

– Killing yourself for a mythical being that you have been child indoctrinated or conditioned when older to believe in IS brainwashing and if you don’t believe that then you’re either brainwashed yourself, or an idiot!

– These kids are brainwashed to be child martyrs:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_We_Die_As_Martyrs

And if you can’t watch this clip and see that it is brainwashing then I really can’t say anything else other than how much you disgust me with how stupid you are.

I mean seriously what is wrong with you?
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“In any event, we see that BB(s)J can’t fathom ANY other reason a person would believe they would please Allah – outside of being brainwashed (which we have seen is an illogical argument).”
————

Ok this is the part where Crackpipe was supposed to tell us his reasons why he believes in Allah and that when they die as martyrs they will get rewarded.

– Oh wait a second, Crackpipe doesn’t believe in Allah either, or that when they die blowing themselves up to kill people they get rewarded.

> I wonder why Crackpipe is thus wasting our time.

– Since Crackpipe can’t tell us how brainwashing and child indoctrination are not real after I’ve given several undeniable examples, then his point of saying brainwashing is illogical argument is itself illogical.

– Here’s why Crackpipe is illogical and my arguments are not…..

> I’ve shown several examples.

> Crackpipe has shown the dishonest unreliable and untrustworthy writings of a man who worked under the payroll of a dishonest, unreliable and untrustworthy religious organization, pretending to be a science organization, that has an agenda to mislead people.

– I’ve shown genuine textbook definitions of brainwashing and child indoctrination and backed up everything I said to be true.

– Crackpipe just simply said “his argument is illogical, or invalid” with never showing how, other then quoting an untrustworthy specialist and a brainwashed cult member who Crackpipe tried saying wasn’t brainwashed.

– I quoted unbiased experts, with specific points and quotes that agreed with and backed up everything I said.

– Crackpipe said several times that brainwashing could exist and other times said things weren’t brainwashing because they weren’t isolated and other examples that actually only applied to Korean war prisoners.

– I repeatedly said the truth, which was that brainwashing is child indoctrination, or being exploited while being in a state of being emotionally vulnerable when older.

> AGAIN I’ll remind everyone how I showed this with the quotes of experts who said the same thing to back what I say up.

– I stand by my claim that the only way someone could be religious is if they are brainwashed.

– Crackpipe repeatedly keeps saying how I can only see someone being religious if they are brainwashed, but then never gives us any reason to think otherwise.

> Been waiting for Crackpipe to tell us how someone could believe something that makes no sense and has no evidence, while not believing another religion that has no evidence and makes no sense, but is believed by billions.

> He doesn’t ever tell us though.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“But, again, I’m not a Muslim so I can’t really speak to this. Even so, as a non-Muslim I still can think of at least TWO reasons other than brainwashing that someone would believe and do such a thing…”
—————-

Ugh

So again Crackpipe says something so stupid that it’s just painful to deal with him now.

– WHY would Crackpipe say that he can think of 2 reasons and then never say what those reasons are?

– Does he not know how stupid and pathetic he actually sounds? WTF is wrong with him?

– So Crackpipe knows of 2 reasons why people would martyr themselves in the name of Allah because they think Allah wants that, but they aren’t brainwashing?

> So why wouldn’t Crackpipe tell us?

> How are these not the words of a total
loser out to waste everyone’s time?
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“BB(s)J then just runs through a list of things:

“a) There’s no evidence for any religion being true.”

So BB(s)J believes…there’s another belief he has!”
————–

Nope. Not a belief at all. FACT.

– There is no evidence that any religion is true.

– Crackpipe has not provided any evidence that any religion is true.

– All evidence of Jesus that Crackpipe has submitted has been completely meaningless and non-existent.

> The gospels have shown to be fiction in every sense.

> The outside sources of Jesus have all been shown to be fake, parrotted hearsay, or not talking about Jesus at all.

> The sources of Paul that were written by possibly him, do not talk about him knowing Jesus’ brother, but “brothers” in the christian sense.

> All references of Paul about Jesus were from scripture, revelation, or talking with Jesus in outer space.

> There is no difference between Paul and Davd Koresh really and Crackpipe doesn’t think Koresh was divine, or anything of the sort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“b) Strong evidence no religion is true.”

According to BB(s)J… ”
————

No, according to actual evidence such as history, science, proven facts and simple logic, that proves every religion to be nothing but nonsense.

– Crackpipe completely failed at showing any evidence of christianity being based on truth, or any other religion for that matter.

– If there was any evidence saying how any religion was true then I would know about it and the rest of the world too.

– Since their isn’t any evidence and everything points to all religions being nonsense, then that means that the only reasons people believe religions are because of child indoctrination and brainwashing when older from having an emotional vulnerablity exploited.

> Simple as that.

– Crackpipe provided nothing to prove any religion.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“c) Believing the universe had an intelligent design connects nothing to any religion.”

Not sure what he’s trying to argue here… ”
————–

More stupidity then demonstrated by Crackpipe.

– It is quite common for believers to say that Atheists can’t disprove a creator and that everything had to have a designer.

– I don’t agree on this above point about everything having a designer, but am open to evidence if it should appear, however there is nothing that connects intelligent design to any religion.

– Religion is on it’s own.

– I don’t know why Crackpipe found this point so difficult to grasp.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“d) No religion makes any sense.”

Again, because they don’t make sense to BB(s)J NONE can be true…another logical fallacy.”
—————

No, it’s not that no religion makes sense to me, it’s that no religion makes any sense for any reason whatsoever.

– I’ve repeatedly asked Crackpipe to explain how christianity makes sense, but he just simply ignores answering and deflects with the same answer every time.

– Since Crackpipe can’t tell me how christianity makes sense, then by Crackpipe not explaining how it does make sense, then Crackpipe has failed to even make an argument.

– Do people kinda see Crackpipe’s pattern here of simply not dealing with anything and not giving any real answers?

– Another reason I will not be dealing with Crackpipe after I post these.

– Crackpipe is just a time wasting idiot who does nothing but show how stupid religious people and christians in particular really are.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“e) Science explains how the universe works and functions and has nothing to do with any religion.”

Okay, but explaining how something works and functions doesn’t always answer HOW it was made and designed…”
————

There is no evidence of any intelligent design.

– AGAIN however, there is NOTHING connecting a simple belief in intelligent design to any religion.

– Crackpipe needs to do research on stellar nucleosynthesis, evolution and panspermia.

http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/27304046

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uKqvjEE0wFg

http://ideonexus.com/2012/02/12/101-reasons-why-evolution-is-true/

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller–Urey_experiment

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Timeline_of_evolutionary_history_of_life

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_3PFfMdZ9c

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qdLFCz1Y508&list=WL
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“f) Strong evidence religions are just recycled from other religions that make no sense.”

Here I would agree with certain religions. Not necessarily “recycled” but certainly dependent. Which IS an argument against them, given what is known from the “base” religion…However, this doesn’t really address the “brainwashing.”
————

Seriously?’ WTF?! Nobody can be this stupid.

– It means that the religions are just plagarized and are based on religions that Crackpipe doesn’t believe in.

– It means that Crackpipe is brainwashed to a lie.

– A recycled and plagarized lie.

> As Richard Carrier explains.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XORm2QtR-os
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“g) Without child indoctrination and dececeptively brainwashing people religion would just disappear.”

Another illogical argument we can disregard…”
————–

Another example of what a poor apologist Crackpipe is.

– He basically implies and says he’s going to address my brainwashing article and defend christianity.

– How does he do that? By simply ignoring everything I say, because Crackpipe is too much of a coward to defend christianity.

– Since Crackpipe knows there is no defense about me saying this, so he yet again does another one of his classic dismissals.

> What a brilliant way to defend christianity (sarcsasm) by simply not defending it.

– This was the whole point of Crackpipe addressing this article and the issue of brainwashing, so WTF?!

– Proving again what a pathetic time wasting loser Crackpipe is and I suggest that anyone who comes in contact with Crackpipe should do what I just realized and just block and ignore.

> You will have just wasted your time talking to one of the most obnoxious and stupid human beings on Earth who really is just out to waste people’s time and has nothing relevant or of value to say whatsoever.

– I will simply repeat what I said then and remind all who read this that Crackpipe couldn’t defend what I said, so he simply chose to deflect like a coward.

> Without childhood indoctrination and if parents weren’t allowed to subject children to religion til they were 18, then religions would all disappear.

> As now rational adults, uninfluenced by complete nonsense that has no evidence and is OBVIOUSLY ridiculous fiction, they would find the religions laughable.

> If people also were not allowed legally to prey on people who are emotionally vulnerable, then religions would have no way to sustain their numbers.

> Since religion is all based on lies, the only way to keep people believing those lies is through brainwashing.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“h) That if religions were simply TRUE they would be obviously true and not in need of apologists LYING about everything to make people believe them.”

Another illogical argument we can disregard…”
—————–

Well guess what folks? I’m not the only one who says this point. Crackpipe’s pathetic tactic of simply dismissing everything, again just exposes how christianity and all religions have no defense.

– Richard Carrier says the exact same thing here that I say about how things should just be obviously true:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B4WBTlAPJ-4

> The entire 11 minute video makes the same point.

> It would be interesting if Crackpipe did a blog piece attacking this entire video clip of Carrier, but of course Crackpipe wouldn’t, because Crackpipe is too much of a coward.

> I suggested he attack Robert Price’s article I sent him and he just ignored that challenge.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“- Saying things over and over again about there being overwhelming evidence when they know that not to be true.”
—————–

This quote Crackpipe took from me is a popular apologist statement, but this is of course an absolute lie that they know is a lie.

– Typical apologist dishonesty.

– If apologists didn’t lie then they wouldn’t be able to do apologetics.

> Simple as that.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“- They know that there’s no reason to believe any religion whatsoever and have to lie and say there is.”
If you are religious YOU ARE BRAINWASHED!
If you make someone else religious YOU ARE BRAINWASHING THEM!
That’s all religion is IS BRAINWASHING and nothing else!”

In the end, science is against BB(s)J on this topic, and he really only hinges this argument on his faulty logic…no surprise.”
————–

BWAHAHAHA SCIENCE IS AGAINST ME?!! HAHAHAHA That’s hilarious!

– Crackpipe says that science is against me, but clearly has this confused with himself.

– Science and history disprove all religions.

– There is no science that supports any religion and Crackpipe is of course lying.

– As for the brainwashing I’ve given many examples of how it is real.

– Crackpipe himself has said that certain things could be brainwashing, but his only defense was “that there weren’t many”.

– Child indoctrination to religions are not only OBVIOUS, but undeniable and Crackpipe never really did address child indoctrination, but simply said “his argument is illogical and invalid” which was of course a meaningless and pointless argument.

– Crackpipe has submitted unreliable and dishonest scientific research from a man who is backed by an unreliable and dishonest agency on a undeniable mission to deceive and convert.

> Like seriously look at how the Templeton foundation is all over this guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Finke

> Research about religious brainwashing from Finke is as reliable as if the nazis did a scientific paper in WW2 on the ethical treatment of jews.

– I have shown unbiased expert research quotes from people who specialize in all forms of brainwashing and psychology, not just ones that show things in religion’s favor.

– There is factual evidence of science regarding the big bang, evolution and nucleosynthesis using observable scientific data.

– There is no evidence of any religion being true and no reason why any sane human being would believe any religion unless they were child indoctrinated, or brainwashed when older from being exploited by being caught in a state of emotional vulnerability.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“But let’s take a moment to see if ANY of the above can be attributed to Christianity.

Remember, to make brainwashing effective (even for just the short term) we need 1) isolation and 2) dependence, and 3) a brainwasher…

However, in my case (and the majority of Christians) we have neither.”
——————-

Seriously though, how much stupidity can I take from Crackpipe? I’ll be so glad after sending all these out on a post and then never hearing, or thinking about Crackpipe again.

Okay so let’s AGAIN obliterate Crackpipe’s words…..

1)
– We DO NOT need isolation to be brainwashed.

> That is false in the sense that one needs to be PHYSICALLY isolated.

> People can also feel emotionally and mentally isolated, even in a crowded highly social lifestyle.

> This is AGAIN because someone is exploited while being caught in a state of being emotionally vulnerable.

> If someone has been child indoctrinated since birth, or very young, then the isolation issue is irrelevant because children’s brains are simply rewired and programmed to believe and disregard whatever the parents or priests want.

> If Crackpipe or any christian were child indoctrinated then whether or not they were “isolated” becomes an irrelevant issue.

2)
– Crackpipe says “dependence”.

> Yep. The last I checked, Crackpipe was pretty dependent on living a lie.

> Also it seems that Crackpipe is also too cowardly to handle the truth.

> If Crackpipe is too dependent on believing a lie because he is too cowardly to deal with the truth, then there goes Crackpipe’s point about not having “dependency”.

3)
– And a brainwasher? Seriously?

– If the child is indoctrinated then the brainwashers are the parents and church and also brainwashed peers who reinforce the delusion.

– If the person is in a state of being emotionally vulnerable when older, then whatever is available at the time and convenient in the form of a religion would be the “brainwasher” that Crackpipe is refering to.

> As in Lee Strobel’s case and also Jim Wallace’s case, they attended church regularly as Atheists and through repetition and conditioning they gradually had those emotional vulnerabilities formed.

> Once someone has an emotional vulnerability formed then they are officially “victims” who cling to the delusion that they use as a mental self defense.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“In my daily life, I encounter people who are 1) atheists (even have friends who are), 2) a different religion, 3) a different denomination than mine, 4) agnostic, etc.

My job puts me out into the community, more so than most people’s jobs…

I am in any number of places and encountering any number of people on any given day.

Personally, I have obvious access to the internet and various news sources and media outlets…

In short, I am not isolated by any stretch of the imagination…”
—————–

More misleading, pointless timewasting from Crackpipe about this irrelevant “isolation” issue he keeps bringing up that disproves nothing, but how desperate he is to make a point.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“I have no dependence upon anyone other than myself and my wife…I have no spiritual leader that my faith is hooked to or dependent upon…”
—————-

Unbelievable. Does Crackpipe not think, or put any thought into this? WTF?!

– Jesus, Crackpipe’s fictional leader is who Crackpipe is hooked on and who his faith is dependent.

> Which has no evidence.

> The gospels are completely made up.

> Paul is not evidence of Jesus and if you examine thoroughly what Paul says you’ll see that there is no evidence of Jesus.

– If Crackpipe was child indoctrinated then he would already be conditioned to believe a lie and also conditioned to deny the truth.

> He wouldn’t even need to be dependent on the lie of his religion, but if Crackpipe was child indoctrinated then he would simply be conditioned to believe something is true that isn’t and conditioned to deny evidence.

– Crackpipe is very dependent on his religion and if he weren’t dependent on his belief then he wouldn’t need only FAITH and nothing else.

– In no way do I need FAITH to be an Atheist when all I have is a simple understanding of provable science and facts.

– I am only an Atheist for the simple reason that there is no evidence for any religion, or any gods.

– Crackpipe is an Atheist to every other god but his, Atheists just go one more than him.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“While I do follow and listen to various teachers of my faith, I do not agree with what they say one-hundred percent of the time. Other teachers I have come across I don’t listen to at all, or pay attention to them…

NO example BB(s)J can be shown to be a part of my life, and yet I’m a believer in my faith.”
——————

If Crackpipe already doesn’t agree with some of what who he considers to be “teachers” are saying, then he should go a lot further and realize that anything they say about christianity being true is a lie.

– The fact that Crackpipe simply believes in christianity at all is the problem since christianity is a complete lie and has no evidence.

– If Crackpipe actually had any evidence then he wouldn’t need faith.

– It’s called “faith” because it’s not knowledge.

– The fact remains that Crackpipe’s religion, like all religions, have no evidence and have nothing about them that makes any sense.

– That fact remains that whether Crackpipe only believes his religion because of child indoctrination, or exploited when older because of he was caught in a state of being emotionally vulnerable, he is still only believing because he is brainwashed and mentally conditioned to believe things without evidence.

> Crackpipe is still conditioned to believe a lie.

– The only “evidence” Crackpipe finally only admitted to having was Bart Ehrman saying “Paul knew Jesus’s brothers”.

> While meanwhile Bart Ehrman doesn’t believe in God, doesn’t believe Jesus was God and also thinks that the gospels are fiction.

> Then Richard Carrier proved in fine detail how Paul’s writings are anything but evidence and are actually evidence there WAS NO JESUS!

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/2839

> Paul really did know nothing about Jesus.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2012/12/what-did-paul-know-about-jesus-not-much/
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“How can this be from brainwashing, when my faith exists far beyond IDEAL conditions for such a thing to take place?”
————–

Well let’s go over several points and issues that show the absurdity of Crackpipe’s above statement:

– People who are brainwashed don’t know they’re brainwashed.

> If they realize they are brainwashed then they are no longer brainwashed.

> Since Crackpipe doesn’t know that he’s brainwashed he can’t say that he isn’t.

> I CAN say that I’m not brainwashed to a religious belief, but that’s because there is nothing I believe that isn’t scientifically shown.

> I might be brainwashed to things that I’m not aware of but it isn’t a religious belief because I don’t have any.

– There still is no reason for Crackpipe to believe his religion for any other reason than the fact that he is brainwashed.

Let’s go over why:

> There is no evidence of Jesus.

> There is no evidence of any religion, but Crackpipe just happens to believe the one he is brainwashed to believe.

> It takes more faith to believe in the “evidence” of Jesus than the faith to believe in Jesus. Now that’s just pathetic.

> The bible is shown to be a fictious book of fairytales and fiction and completely disproven because of history science and common sense.

> The above statement is supported by multiple experts and scholars.

> Crackpipe can’t tell us why he believes christianity and not any other religion.

– Crackpipe has not told us anything about how he was introduced to his religion and as I said before the reason for him not telling us is because it shows Crackpipe to be brainwashed any way you look at it.

> If it didn’t then he would have told us.

– No rational human being if they were a full grown adult raised with science and logic, if they were hearing about the bible for the first time and not exposed to any religions, would give any part of the bible any credibility, or seriousness of being true.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“See the real problem with BB(s)J’s contention is that HE is the one that has the burden of proof in EVERY CASE.”
——————-

Well that is of course a flat out lie and for several reasons and I will explain why.

– I do not have to prove a “god” exists since there is no evidence that a “god” does exist and thousands of “gods” throughout history and through the existence of man, have had no evidence either, even though they are very very different.

> I do not have to prove anything without evidence, just like Crackpipe doesn’t have to prove that a 900 year old timelord is travelling through time and space in a phone booth spaceship.

– Crackpipe might have a claim that there is intelligent design, but that is no argument for how Crackpipe’s religion is true, that is merely an argument for deism and nothing else.

– If Crackpipe wants the burden of proof about why christianity is false well that I can do I suppose.

> The bible goes against science and history.

> The bible has been shown to be based on fairytale stories.

> Nothing in the bible makes any sense.

> There is no evidence that Jesus even existed.

> There is evidence that christianity was merely created to replace jewish law and oppress jews in general.

> Alll outside sources of Jesus have been shown to be completely meaningless.

> Paul is not evidence of Jesus and actually is evidence Jesus probably did not exist.

– I’ve repeatedly shown everything I just said over and over throughout this exchange.

– Crackpipe needs to show the burden of proof that he isn’t brainwashed to a lie, since I don’t have a belief, but instead have a lack of belief to all religions, I do not need to prove anything.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“That is, while he may make a broad statement and generalization – his “facts” do not support MOST cases.”
————–

Crackpipe is of course lying, but these responses should more than thoroughly support everything I say.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“His belief is based solely on his inability to accept that someone can honestly come to believe their faith – yet this is an illogical argument, and one that can only be addressed on an individual level, and ignores evidence to the contrary.”
—————–

Crackpipe was supposed to have given several examples of how someone could believe a religion other than if they were brainwashed to believe it, but he doesn’t.

– So my point that people can only believe a religion if they were child indoctrinated, or exploited when older by being emotionally vulnerable, still stands and still is backed by the references I quoted throughout this response article.

– There is no logical reason other than brainwashing that shows how people can believe in nonsensical supernatural religions that have no evidence.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“In short, he has to show that there cannot be ANY OTHER way someone comes to a faith and belief…even his examples don’t show this – as we see in every case people willingly believing and seeking…”
——————-

If Crackpipe is referring to victims of child indoctrination and having kids brains rewired and programmed, well there really is no defense against saying this exists.

– If Crackpipe is trying to say that people willingly choose to believe in Christianity without being brainwashed, well Crackpipe is not only wrong, but lying.

– Here is why you have to be brainwashed to believe christianity, or ANY other religion if you aren’t already child indoctrinated to do so…..

> There is no evidence for ANY religion, not just christianity.

> No religion makes any sense and in order for it to make sense you have to be brainwashed to bipass all the many reasons why religions do not.

> The same lack of evidence, lack of thought processes and reasoning that cause suicide martyrs in islam, are the same lack of evidence, lack of thought processes and reasoning that goes into believing christianity.

> Believing that God wants children to die as suicide martyrs has the same logic and evidence as the belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

> The evidence that people only believe the one of many multiple religions that make no sense and that that religion is either the one they were child indoctrinated to by their parents, or the one that was convenient to them while they were being exploited in their emotionally vulnerable state….. is undeniable as evidence.

> The fact that there are people out there whose life and financial income DEPENDS on people believing in christianity whether they believe it, or not, or whether or not it hypothetically is real, or false, really should wake people up.

> The fact that people’s lives would only be any different if they stopped believing in christianity in the sense that they would no longer be slaves of a lie and no longer be afraid of committing “thought crime” and being guilty of it.

> I even made a checklist for people to do self diagnostics of their own religious brainwashing:

https://thebuybulljournal.wordpress.com/2014/02/13/religious-people-need-to-ask-themselves-questions/

> I’ve yet to have anyone show me how Atheists could be brainwashed.
.
.
Crackpipe continues….

“The argument is actually in reverse – I don’t have to show BB(s)J that I’m NOT brainwashed, he has to show that I was and still am…

ONLY in these broad, generalize, and illogical arguments does BB(s)J’s argument exist…

So, I will challenge BB(s)J to this: prove I AM brainwashed with SPECIFICS and not broad strokes…

If you can show that, maybe you can enlighten me.
—————

Well I of course would show Crackpipe quite easily how he is brainwashed if Crackpipe had actually given me any personal details about how he became a christian, but of course he did not.

– I had suggested in previous responses even before this big whack of responses that Crackpipe sent me that I’m responding to all at once, that he give me details, but of course he did not.

– Crackpipe knows that I can’t give specific answers as to how and why Crackpipe is brainwashed without details of his life, so his silly little challenge is laughable and extremely sleazy on his part

> If he was child indoctrinated is one thing, but other details if he became religious later were not disclosed, so that is no different than Crackpipe saying “I’m thinking of a number from 1-10, so which one is it?”

– So there you have it….

> If he was brought up and programmed and conditioned from very young then Crackpipe was child indoctrinated.

> I would need the details that Crackpipe knowingly and dishonestly left out.

> It wouldn’t be difficult.

> However I don’t want the details or any further contact from Crackpipe ever again after I post all these.

> Now after a month and a half of using much of my spare time I will finish a list of all Crackpipe’s lies then finish my “Evidence of Jesus is meaningless 2” article and then try to forget Crackpipe even exists because his stupidity is so painful.

– I would be lying though if I didn’t say I was glad about all the articles I’m going to post by copying and pasting stuff that was in the responses to Crackpipe that wouldn’t exist if Crackpipe didn’t say so many stupid things and cause me to research and respond.

Advertisements