May 7 Part 2

Wednesday, May 7, 2014

Unbelievable. I was doing my Evidence of Jesus is meaningless 2 article and I realized when looking at back references, that I never replied to Crackpipe christian’s ridiculous response article attacking Mara Bar-Serapion.

http://justonecan.blogspot.ca/2014/05/bbsj-vs-jesus-part-four-mara-bar.html?m=1

How or why this happened I don’t know, but I can only guess it’s because I have a life and Crackpipe has no life other than trying to be as obnoxious and stupid as possible and coming across as a completely brainwashed godbot.

I really could have sworn I answered this, but I guess it just got lost when my cyberstalker Crackpipe christian here sent me article after article.

So here we go to finish this off then finish the “Evidence of Jesus is meaningless 2”, then post away and try to forget that someone as stupid and pathetic as Crackpipe exists (sort of brainwashing myself when you think about it because I can’t deal with the truth of Crackpipe’s existence).

So here we go. The final article response to crazy loser supreme Crackpipe christian…..
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BB(s)J vs Jesus Part Four! Mara Bar-Serapion
Hey folks!

On we Go through BB(s)J’s critiques on non-Biblical evidence for Jesus.

In Part Four we will look at his attack of Mara Bar-Serapion.

So let’s get to it!

“4) MARA BAR-SERAPION in (claimed time) around 73 AD apparently wrote a letter from prison to his son and apologists attempt to claim that Jesus was mentioned in it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_bar_Serapion

http://www.theskepticalreview.com/tsrmag/4mara95.html

This is completely ridiculous and absolutely misleading why anyone would use this as evidence.”

Well, we shall see how! It’s pretty straight forward too!

The two lines in question are: “What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death….What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that their Kingdom was abolished.”

And: “But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the teaching of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise King die for good; He lived on in the teaching which He had given.”

So who MBS references is 1) wise king who was 2) executed by fellow Jews 3) is still remembered for and by his teachings. 4) and shortly thereafter the Jewish kingdom is abolished.

These are key points to remember.
—————–

Well this was a simple matter of looking up “jewish kings” on wikipedia.

– Seriously, it wasn’t that hard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kings_of_Judah

– Now let’s list some candidates:

Zedekiah 618 BC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zedekiah

Josiah 648-609 BC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josiah

Amon 664-641 BC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amon_of_Judah

Amaziah 776 BC died

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amaziah_of_Judah

Jehoash 937-796 BC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehoash_of_Judah

– Ok that’s FIVE people who Mara could be talking about, there are many others but I just wanna get this done.

– Either way though it says that this old testament reference kings are all there are and that there isn’t any record of these people outside of the bible.

– In fact there is no historical recordings of any jewish kings outside of the bible, because all records were lost, or destroyed.

– However, even if this was a reference of Jesus this is nothing more than hearsay and there is no evidence that Mara wrote this in the year 73 AD but sometime BETWEEN 73 AD THROUGH 200 AD.

– This is no different than the same hearsay without evidence that Tacitus was writing about, Josephus and Pliny also.

– In actuality it would be the same hearsay Crackpipe and I are using now when you think about it, because there is no evidence and are just stories that have no evidence, make no sense, are not historical and contradict themselves.

As explained:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/mara.html
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Crackpipe continues on…

“a) Doesn’t mention Jesus by name.

b) Mentions Socrates and Pythagora, but not Jesus (Yehoshuah, then Iesous since he didn’t get the name Jesus until the 16th century by the church).

http://jesus8880.com/chapters/gematria/yehoshua.htm”

Correct Jesus isn’t named specifically as the others are. We have a nameless king of the Jews being alluded to.
——————

Which is really funny since Josephus wrote about so many different Jesus’.

– 17 Jesus’ actually

http://jesusbirthermovement.tumblr.com/post/92871000169/josephus-mentioned-at-least-17-different-jesus

– But nothing about the Jesus that Crackpipe is thinking since we know that the CHURCH didn’t give him the name “Jesus” til the 16th century (1400 years later)

– Crackpipe doesn’t find it stupid that Jesus’ name was not mentioned and people didn’t even know his name?

– So Crackpipe is merely just begging us to believe that Mara had some inside information that nobody else had, because Crackpipe is brainwashed to a delusion.

> Just like Crackpipe says that Bart Ehrman is just giving his OPINION the gospels aren’t historical, or reliable.

> Like what Crackpipe says here:

http://justonecan.blogspot.ca/2014/05/bbsj-replies-yet-again.html?m=1

“Let’s go over what Crackpipe has said here shall we?
– 1 min 40 sec- Talks about how the gospels are not historical (this means they aren’t reliable)”
Yep, Bart’s talking about the reliability of the Gospels in a SPECIFIC context: the Resurrection. And in this he claims OPINION! He doesn’t find them to be credible in that context, because of his belief.
Bart doesn’t like them for that purpose.”

– So the bottom line is that Crackpipe is telling us something that isn’t true based on his delusion of which there is no evidence, or in other words his deluded OPINION.

> It’s actually really not even Crackpipe’s opinion but merely him wasting everyones time.
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Crackpipe continues….

“As for the llink regarding Jesus’ name, In short: it’s a translation issue soley. No Christian conspiracy.

But it is interesting.”
—————

The fact remains that nobody even knew who Jesus was because there’s no evidence that he was even a real person, or even existed.

– The fact also remains that Jesus was a cult leader who fed people nonsense if he did exist and nobody considered him a king, especially the jews, who had no knowledge Jesus even existed, even to this day.
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Crackpipe continues….

“c) Was 40 years later from when Jesus was supposedly killed.

That’s pretty current!”
————-

Who does Crackpipe think he’s kidding?

– 40 years later with TODAY’S standards is not current.

– With no media, or trustworthy sources, combined with hearsay, exaggerations and miscommunication while exchanging info, “40 years later” 2000 years ago was not “current” and far from it.

– As usual Crackpipe is living in a fantasy world.
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Crackpipe continues….

“d) He wouldn’t even be considered a king?

Here we see BB(s)J’s lack of Bible study! He claims to know what’s in the Bible, but doesn’t know how Jesus could’ve been called a king?

Um…here’s why: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus,_King_of_the_Jews

But let’s put that on the back burner for a bit…”
—————–

LOL And since Mara wasn’t a christian, then what reason would he have for reading the bible, or even believing it?

None. Zero.
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Crackpipe continues….

“Jesus was only documented in the new testament which is a political tool that is completely non-historical.

Well that is what we are trying to determine! Lol. We haven’t gotten through all the sources yet, nor finished with this one! Though pretty much most historians disagree with this contention. In any event this point is moot in regards to the quotes we are dealing with here.”
—————

Sure. Let’s ask these historians.

Carrier:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cKD3_46Sr88

Avalos:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RiiPK-FXicc&list=WL

Ehrman again:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A3qXQt6dYME

– Crackpipe is deluding himself even further if he believes that there aren’t serious historians who are convinced Jesus didn’t exist.

– As Hector Avalos explains above that there are several serious historians who know the story of Jesus and the bible are all lies but they fear for their careers.
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Crackpipe continues….

“However if this letter is evidence for Jesus, then he WOULD be documented outside the Bible.

“Jesus was only documented in a book that is based on nothing but hearsay, by people who never knew him, couldn’t have known him and never claimed to know him.””
——————

It isn’t evidence for anything more than the evidence of how desperate and in denial christians like Crackpipe are.

– No name.

– Multiple unknown kings.

– Jesus wasn’t a king.

– This letter could have been written as late as the 3rd century, 73 AD just happens to be the earliest it could have been written.

– Jews didn’t execute Jesus in the story, the Romans did.

– 30 years later was not “just after that”.
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Crackpipe continues….

“There are issues with this point as well, but let’s stick to the topic at hand.

– Since when are cult leaders kings?

– How if someone is a “king” do they get put to death like a mosquito?

As Bart Ehrman himself explains:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YftlQ-Ox9VM

What Bart Ehrman explains in the video is why he doesn’t believe the resurrection happened. And offers alternate explanations.

But Bart Ehrman BELIEVES Jesus existed and that there is extra Biblical evidence for Jesus.

So I’m not sure what the point was their.”
————-

Yes, EXPLAINABLE and POSSIBLE alternate explanations (unlike anything in the bible).

– The only evidence Bart offers though for the HISTORICAL Jesus, is Paul knowing his imaginary friends brothers, which was when Jesus was referring to what christians call each other (“brother”).

– Bart clearly says in his book “Did Jesus exist” that Pliny the younger, Tacitus and Josephus were just repeating hearsay that was common knowledge.
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Crackpipe continues….

“Okay so here we come to BB(s)J providing us with how this could be evidence for Jesus:

e) The fact of the time frame of Socrates and Pythagoras are 5th century and 6th century B.C (which are in the same paragraph as the “wise jewish king” reference.

– So Mara Bar-Seropian could easily have been referring to someone else in the past 600 years.

Sure, that is possible. And this begs a question which we will ask in a moment. However though he could have been referring to someone back that far, doesn’t mean he is.”
————-

This is hypocrisy at it’s worst.

Just because there’s no evidence of a teapot orbiting the sun in between Mars and Jupiter doesn’t mean there isn’t either.

Crackpipe’s denial and desperation are so pathetic.

He reminds me of a celebrity stalker who has deluded themself into thinking they are in a relationship with the celebrity, but the celebrity doesn’t even know they exist.

> Crackpipe is even worse though since his celebrity doesn’t even exist.
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Crackpipe continues….

“f) There hadn’t been a Jewish king in over 600 years since Mara Bar-Seropian had supposedly wrote that letter to his son and mentioned “the wise king”.

Very true, and would even be longer if we took the later dates of the letter.”
———-

Well that was easy.
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Crackpipe continues…

“g) Since he was making reference to people who were already in that time area, then he must of been refering to someone who was actually a Jewish king.

That’s a possibility that remains to be seen if it holds water. However MBS doesn’t have to be referencing someone from that same time. Just because he mentions two people from that time frame doesn’t necessarily mean the Wise King is as well. MBS could be comparing a more contemporary “king.”
—————-

So since Crackpipe just admitted that it could be anyone, then that woukd mean this excludes this as evidence also.

– Crackpipe has also revealed that he is simply biased and desperate.

Very similar to this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA
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Crackpipe continues….

“- This would in no way be Jesus.

IF MBS was truly referencing a king 600 plus years ago.”
————

Or several other circumstances.

The possibilities and reasons of explanations of why Mara wrote what he did are enormous.

Regarding realistic possibilities, not impossible made up supernatural examples based on lies.

Like Bart says:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1nT9lfqlx8I

– However when it all comes down to it this is nothing more than common christian hearsay that was referenced anywhere from 73 AD-200 AD.
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Crackpipe continues….

“We shall see, but lastly:

h) In Mara Bar-Serapion’s letter he says that the Jews executed their wise King.

– Isn’t it funny then that the Romans executed Jesus and NOT the Jews?

We will get to the execution in a moment, let’s work out the facts.

What we are looking for is a person that fits four criteria:

1) Considered a “Wise King.”
————–

Since the stories of Jesus showed that he was stupid and got himself killed because he was stupid, then he wouldn’t be talking about the idiot Jesus character if he had some secret information that no one else had.

– Again though, nothing but common christian hearsay written anywhere from 73 AD-200 AD.
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Crackpipe continues…

“2) murdered by the Jews.”
————-

Was the Romans.
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Crackpipe continues….

“3) was still known for his teachings after his death.”
————–

Everything about Jesus was added from hearsay.

– There’s no evidence that Jesus was even a real person.

– There isn’t one thing in the gospels that wasn’t added by someone who never knew Jesus and never knew anyone who did even if he did exist.

– Everything that was said in the gospels was simply made up by the authors, who were anonymous, not Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

– Jesus taught nobody anything because they weren’t his words 40-80 years later.
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Crackpipe continues….

“4) kingdom was abolished shortly after his death.

So we are looking for a Jew who was 1) considered and called a “wise king.” Was 2)killed by his fellow Jews and was 3)still known after death for his teachings.4) and the kingdom abolished after.”
—————

1) Wasn’t a king, but a cult leader.

2) Romans killed him.

– Why would a king get killed by his own people?

– Actually I take that back since it did happen to 2 of the other kings I mentioned from the old testament.

> Jehoash, Amon

> However these are just biblical records of them and no record of them exists.

> All actual records of Jewish kings of that time are lost from history, maybe forever.

– Since there is no evidence this isn’t talking about some unknown king, then there is no evidence this is talking about Jesus.

– Also the fact that this could have been written as late as the 3rd century, which would make it heresay if it was talking about Jesus.
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Crackpipe continues….

“Now I would argue that whomever we want to postulate here, they MUST hit all four points.

Miss one, it’s not them. So it’s an all-or-nothing proposition.”
————–

Big fat zero then since if it is hearsay then that’s all it is is hearsay and if it isn’t hearsay there isn’t anything proving that Mara wasn’t referencing something else.
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Crackpipe continues….

“BB(s)J says it CANT be Jesus He argues MBS must be talking about an actual Jewish King from 600 plus years ago.

Now credit must be given to BB(s)J. At no time has he said MBS’ letter is fake. In other words, BB(s)J believes MBS is referring to someone who truly lived at one time. That this nameless “wise king” is an actual person from history.”
—————-

Well it really doesn’t matter when you think about it.

– No way to prove he was referencing Jesus.

– No way to prove it wasn’t simply 3rd century parrotted hearsay.
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Crackpipe continues….

“In other words: BB(s)J is cool with the four facts.”
—————-

No, I’m not cool with it because none of these are evidence of anything.

They are meaningless and take more faith to believe in the evidence then of the myth of Jesus.
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Crackpipe continues….

“So if BB(s)J thinks said person is a Jewish King from 600 plus years ago we have to ask: which king?

Which Jewish King fits all four facts?”
—————-

Again, all the actual records outside the bible of kings of the jews are lost.

– Also, reminding everyone that this reference could be from the 3rd century.

> Which would make it hearsay.

> So again, meaningless.
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Crackpipe continues….

“Which King does BB(s)J offer up as a possibility?

He doesn’t. But I would challenge him to find at least one. Doubtful he’ll find one that fits all four facts.”
—————–

All records of Kings lost except for old testament kings which have no evidence and this could be from 3rd century.

– So not evidence of Jesus even a little.
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Crackpipe continues….

“So, is there someone who does?

Yes.

Jesus.”
——————

No evidence of real jewish king records.

– Some biblical candidates in the old testament.

– Could be hearsay from as late as 3rd century, which is meaningless then as evidence.
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Crackpipe continues….

“Was Jesus considered a wise King?”
—————-

– Unknown since there is no evidence Jesus even existed.

– Unknown since all gospel accounts are historically unreliable and anonymous authors who weren’t there and made everything up.

– Unknown since this reference could just be hearsay from the 3rd century.
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Crackpipe continues..,,

“Yes. He was referred to as “King of the Jews.” And considered wise.”
—————

No evidence of the gospels being true.

– No history of Jesus outside of the gospels.

– No evidence that the jews really did kill Jesus, but it is said that the Romans did anyways in the fictious gospel story and some lines that Paul wrote in 1st Thessalonions said it was the jews.

– Nothing more than a anti-semite story.

– Either way this story is most likely parroted hearsay from as late as the 3rd century.
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Crackpipe continues…

“Was he killed by his fellow Jews?

Yes.”
————-

Well no, it was the Romans.

– Even though it’s fiction, why would they stonebtheir own king? Which is what JEWISH law would do.

– What kind of king gets killed by his own people, blasphemy laws or not?

– Again though that this was written anywhere from 73 AD to the 3rd century and even if it was as early as 73 AD it would still be based on christian hearsay.

> This isn’t evidence not because we can’t know how late, or early it is from within those boundaries of 73 AD-200 AD, but because it is just based on hearsay and nothing to prove otherwise.

> The whole matter is that there is a small chance it might be earlier in the 1st century, but there is no evidence to prove otherwise.
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Crackpipe continues….

“Now here we must note that BB(s)J confuses an issue by stating it was the Romans who literally killed Jesus, not the Jews.”
—————–

Either way it doesn’t matter since it’s just hearsay that could be as late as the 3rd century.

– Based on a fictional fairytale anyway.
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Crackpipe continues….

“While the Romans did the actual crucifixion it was at the demand of the Jewish leaders: remember Pilate washed his hands of it. The Jewish leaders are responsible for Jesus’ death, so it’s no issue to say they killed him using the Romans as their means.”
—————-

Based on christian hearsay anywhere between 73 AD-200 AD is not evidence of anything especially if it’s as late as 200 AD.
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Crackpipe continues….

“Was Jesus known for his teachings? Of course! He still is to this day.”
————-

No evidence Jesus was even a real person.

– The gospels are complete fiction written by nobody who knew Jesus and in another language in another country who were writing from hearsay.

– Even if it was written as early as 73 AD it is still based on christian hearsay if it was referencing Jesus, but it could have been written as late as 200 AD.
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Crackpipe continues….

“And finally: Did the Jewish kingdom fall shortly after his death?

Damn skippy!

In 70AD. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(70)

Thus making it quite a recent event in the eyes of MBS whose letter was just years after.”
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This is of course wrong because there is no way to prove when the letter was written and could have been as late as 200 AD.

– Even if the reference was about Christianity, the letter is just based on hearsay and common knowledge about a belief that christians gossiped about.
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Crackpipe continues….

“There we have ALL four facts that BB(s)J agrees with filled by one person.”
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Nothing confirmed, but again this based on hearsay and nothing else and Mara doesn’t say a name anyway.

The reason he wouldn’t have said a name for “the king of the jews” is because it would be just based on hearsay and nothing else and wouldn’t know, or remember, or care.
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Crackpipe continues….

“Now obviously BB(s)J won’t admit at all that this could be Jesus, but that’s rejecting evidence based soley on bias.”
—————

No this isn’t based on bias but on simply facing up to truth and not denying reality.

– The references are vague and could be anything .

– Even if he was talking about christian belief which we have no evidence of being based on real things, it would simply be hearsay and written from 73 AD-200 AD.
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Crackpipe continues…..

“Jesus does fit all four facts. So if BB(s)J would like to reject the evidence there are some questions he needs to answer:

Can BB(s)J give ANY justification beyond speculation to think MBS is writing about another king? Can BB(s)J make the four facts for anyone else? Can BB(s)J give us any reasons that Jesus doesn’t fit the four facts?”
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Yes. The fact that the history of Jewish kings is not existent, save for what was written in the fictional old testament.

> So it could have been someone else.

> Nothing to say that such a king might not have existed, which is still more probable than the omnipotent creator of the universe impregnating a girl with another version of himself so he could be tortured, because that is the only way to save us from himself.

> Crackpipe can’t prove such a king didn’t exist.

– Another reason Jesus doesn’t fit the 4 facts is because Jesus is fiction.

– Also, reminding Crackpipe that this would just be based on christian hearsay even if it was talking about Jesus.

> Sometime between 73AD-200 AD, but we don’t know which.
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Crackpipe continues….

“Well, if not then it does look as we have possible evidence of Jesus outside of the Bible!”
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Nope.

We have something that is either talking about common christian hearsay that everyone knew about because christians were delusional blabber mouths just like today.

> Whether it was from 73 AD-200 AD can not be determined.

> Crackpipe and I talking about Jesus today is no more evidence than if Mara was writing about him in 100-200 AD.

– Again though, Mara could have been talking about some other king and Crackpipe has no choice but to accept this point as true since he already believes Jesus is the son of God based on not one single bit of evidence that Jesus was even a real person.

> The possibility of there being a real
jewish king in the past that Mara was talking about is still far more probable than “Jesus was a hippy rabbi who had nothing better to do than impregnate virgin girls and have himself tortured because he loves us.” Like seriously.

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